The harsh reality

[Kriterion_BD]

I agree with you on the urgency Boundary, and the possible outcome you forecast. I just don't think throwing out the current players is the best idea. The bowling attack is making progress. Jarvis might actually be something. In fact of our team most of our players can compare to the Zim team from the turn of the centruy, with the exception of Andy Flower and Streak. Taylor is a match for Campbell, Vusi and Hami for Carlisle and Wishart. Price is a match for Price. Williams can be as good as Whittall. Mawoyo for Rennie or Gripper. Jarvis can match the bowlers who used to support Streak, so can most of our best seamer options. Cremer is better than Murphy or players of that ilk. We are just missing the superstar - probably his name is Ballance from this generation.

I think a tour plan should be found that matches what we did prior to the rentry to Tests, to fill these gaps and expand our playing knowledge. Plus the extra tour fixtures are a crucial fix for the immediate improvement they will bring to our away performance.

The start that Jarvis has had to his career...he's doing as well as Streak, no? Slighter higher average, but much better strike rate. Of course Streak continued for a long career.

[Jemisi]

Yeah, just way too soon to make any comparison with Streak. But he looks as good as the other seamers of that generation.

[ZIMDOGGY]

way way too early.

think about (how hhm points out) he gets cartered in the one dayers.

his good form could merely be a statistical spike he may never reach again. evidence supports this. and the difference between a 125 and a 135 bowler is massive if you have ever faced that pace. he is bowling in the 120s so will always need to be on his game. WI ARE GOOD BUT STILL ON THE WEAKER END OIF THE TEST SPHERE,

That said, i see GENUINE promise with jarvis, and i dont see it with mpofu for instance who is likely at his ceiling. jarvis you just feel could be ANYTHING.
i am 100% behind jarvis and should be first bowler picked... but lets just slow down on the streak comparisons and revisit this in 2 years time!

[Kriterion_BD]

way way too early.

think about (how hhm points out) he gets cartered in the one dayers.

his good form could merely be a statistical spike he may never reach again. evidence supports this. and the difference between a 125 and a 135 bowler is massive if you have ever faced that pace. he is bowling in the 120s so will always need to be on his game. WI ARE GOOD BUT STILL ON THE WEAKER END OIF THE TEST SPHERE,

That said, i see GENUINE promise with jarvis, and i dont see it with mpofu for instance who is likely at his ceiling. jarvis you just feel could be ANYTHING.
i am 100% behind jarvis and should be first bowler picked... but lets just slow down on the streak comparisons and revisit this in 2 years time!

I thought Jarvis was a 130-135 kph bowler with occaissional forays nearing 140. How fast was Streak?

[Jemisi]

I think Streak averaged 3-5kph faster than Jarvis does currently. Not massive, but significant.

[Googly]

We have amazing talent in the batting dept at school and just left. Burle (sp?) is brilliant but has left and trying his luck in UK. Lake- great talent, is trying his luck in UK. Both Currans- actually in Cape Town playing in the Surrey U17, they would have left anyway even if KC had not tragically passed. Wicks- trying his luck in Uk I believe. Curtis- at Hilton, he will try his luck in SA or UK. Byrom- currently here but will he want to be messed around by ZC? Welch- currently here but same as Byrom. Walter Huchu- he'll be available. That's 9 great players with world class potential, in my humble opinion. Apologies if I left anyone out. The sad thing is that 8 of them are white. I'll give my 10c worth about this down the page. Firstly if by a miracle they all wanted to play for Zim in the future only 4 would be chosen because the selection procedure is racist. Secondly, in order for them to fulfill their potential they need to play hundreds of tough games against competitive opposition. The SA u19 play 70 games a year!! We play around 12 at school, and against shocking opposition and the good bats often get shocking umpiring decisions.
It takes years to make a quality front-line batsman, hundreds of thousands of throwdowns overseen by a quality coach. Who is getting this coaching here? All of the above have had this opportunity (except Huchu who is just a massive talent). ZC think that a few hours of post school coaching and exposure can get a moderately good batsman up to speed, not in this lifetime!! They seem happy to let the whites go because these specialist batsmen are replaceable. They are not, pure and simple. The "contest" between Curran and Welch has always been a good one. They have scored 17 hundreds apiece to date and they are only 15 years old. I have watched them both many times, they are extraordinary talents. That's 34 centuries between 2 players. If you add up the hundreds scored by the other batsmen I've mentioned and the next best 10 it won't come close. The odds of even two of the players I have mentioned playing for the National Side are extremely slim. The blame lies squarely with ZC and school policies. All these players know that in order to fulfill their potential they have to go and play competitive cricket elsewhere as soon as possible. This is not unpatriotic, but will always be construed as such by people with issues. They want to make a liveable career and make a name for themselves, and good luck to them.

[eugene]

Googly, do you think there is anyway to reverse the trend of talented young players heading overseas? You seem to be someone who is on the ground in Zimbabwe so perhaps you can offer more insight than others. The white community in Zimbabwe seems to be living in a departure lounge these days and we are losing just as many black cricketers.

[FlowerPower]

way way too early.

think about (how hhm points out) he gets cartered in the one dayers.

his good form could merely be a statistical spike he may never reach again. evidence supports this. and the difference between a 125 and a 135 bowler is massive if you have ever faced that pace. he is bowling in the 120s so will always need to be on his game. WI ARE GOOD BUT STILL ON THE WEAKER END OIF THE TEST SPHERE,

That said, i see GENUINE promise with jarvis, and i dont see it with mpofu for instance who is likely at his ceiling. jarvis you just feel could be ANYTHING.
i am 100% behind jarvis and should be first bowler picked... but lets just slow down on the streak comparisons and revisit this in 2 years time!

Agreed too early to compare to Streak. That's unfortunately where agreement stops. Mpofu is a better ODI bowler than Jarvis, and to to be fair, many are (check the stats yourself). As for Test Jarvis is marginally better than Mpofu, having around the same wickets from 3 less innings, but after 6 and 9 matches respectively, I say its too early to call. Mind you its nt as if Jarvis is way younger than Mpofu (actually 3 years younger) the older they get the less significant that gap will get.

I note and respect your personal viewpoint, personally, currently, ODI T20, Mpofu over Jarvis, and if possible Mpofu + other bowlers other than Jarvis. Test: Jarvis +Mpofu+Rainsford. Doubt any of them will be a Streak though, still early days yet.

[FlowerPower]

... Firstly if by a miracle they all wanted to play for Zim in the future only 4 would be chosen because the selection procedure is racist.....

Really? I seem to recall Taylor, Ervine, Waller, Williams, Jarvis, Cremer all in the same team very recently...[should the black players be walking away then?] ...I abhorred hhm's racist tainted rants as much as anyone, but there are times one begins to understand where he is coming from when people just spuy stuff like this, ala KP about a Proteas side, which up to this day hardly fields more than two black players, if any or the Makonis who cry racism when they dont get their way. Lets be factual guys!

[zimfan93]

Hi all. Just on the original topic, whilst on field performances have been disappointing, the politics of international cricket mean that in my view Test status would never be forcibly removed. On a good day we are still level with Bangladesh, and given that nothing would happen without the BCCI approving of it, I think we just need to focus on the continued rebuilding process without having a deeper existential crisis.