Corona

[zimbos_05]

Someone asked why I don't like Trump and I think after this week, dangerous rhetoric, misinformation, and flip flopping are good reasons.

Very dangerous to think a substance like hand sanitising could be injected in to people.

Supporting the protests goes against his own orders, and also goes against any sane medical advice. People who supported those protests have died.

Some of the reasons for those protests are also insane. Gun rights, haircuts, wanting to eat a burger....surely those are very low down on the list in relation to health.

[ZIMDOGGY]

Kriterion, The left pie and misrepresent all the time. ALL the time. You can't be debated against if you are blind to that because you're not playing on the field with the rest of us from that angle if you can't see that. Even Zimbo5 (thanks for the kind words earlier btw) can see it and he's backing you up for everything else. And it is consistent.

What I would recommend to you, and to all, for that matter, in this age of echo chamber targeted media is try to consume all different types of media. Try and understand different perspectives from everyone.

I personally read Stormfront, watch fox snippets on YouTube, CNN snippets and various left wing and feminist/race related media and blogs so I like to think and try to see everything from everyone's POV. I've always felt a strength of mine was to get on everyones level when I need.

The conclusions I have drawn so far in my life is it's reflective of your own personal values and what you want society to look like. This means a fact Can be seen both as a positive and negative by different people without any lying at all.
For example;
A white person in the USA marries a black person and has two mixed kids. Let's take this as a fact for this purpose.

Someone on the mid to far right sees this as another small coffin nail towards white extinction. The extinction of blue eyes, blonde hair, European culture, traditional American culture, you name it. May even be some stress about dealing with in law family and cultural differences. The shrinking white population of the USA and the world causes anxiety.

The leftie thinks 'beautiful! Cultures coming together! Who cares about race, so what if white race dies out, if it happens so be it, life goes on, peopel are equal'.

Neither POV there is lying. Both have valid POVS on the surface, the devil will be in the detail of an expanded debate. It's all on that persons values and place in the world.

There is another angle I think people always fail to see, and this startles me. A lot of people on both sides will point out each other's hypocrisy. 'The left say this but are silent on that' type of thing. Sometimes that's nailed on the head, IF the same person/group says it. But often they will cite two different people/groups on the same political side and point out their differences in an opinion as hypocrisy. Which is bad because that individual persons may be consistent, but are lumped in together to show hypocritical stances. It's exhausting because it means when you play that game no one will ever win because we all have varying opinions.

[Googly]

Lockdown does not and cannot work in third world countries. Just for starters we have not had a lockdown in any African country or anywhere for that matter. When 90% of the people carry on as if nothing has happened it’s not a lockdown is it? It’s not even close!! If your neighbour, neighboring state, neighboring province or country or continent is not in lockdown then there is NO lockdown, it’s frustrating that people don’t get this simple fact. Unless we can get these little covid critters passports and get them to use them it’s all a complete waste of time and anyone who doesn’t get that should inject themselves with 100cc of toilet cleaner.
The longer this goes on the more people will realize attempted lockdown was a mistake anywhere. It’s an absolute load of nonsense.
If you guys think most news outlets are right wing you’re seriously disturbed. They’re largely left wing disturbed fascists and when this is over we need to round them up CNN are loving the disinfectant thing, they will be on it for weeks. They’re carrying on with glee about the anti malarial drug, they’ve lost all perspective, not that they ever had it. What I’ve read is that it does actually have some benefits in quite a few cases.
Where are we with Sweden? I was cussed by the medical experts here but look now, and I’m right about this lockdown nonsense as well.
Anybody that wants to listen to Trump and inject themselves with disinfectant must be encouraged at all costs, they should helicopter the disinfectant, needles and syringes into them so they don’t waste another second taking up space and stealing oxygen. There are far too many stupid people in the world, I’d be culling on IQ, far simpler.

Zimbabwe is such a perfect example of the idiocy that’s going on. We’ve been in a “lockdown” that’s ground all formal business to a halt before we had one case of Covid? we all know that wasn’t the case but hypothetically it’s just plain stupid.
If you’re in lockdown before any cases have been diagnosed then WTF are you thinking? Then you would surely shut the border and not your front door? These c*^s have left the borders open but said shut your door? What stupidity are we dealing with?
If you’re in lockdown after there’s a hundred or a million cases WTF are you thinking, it’s out, there’s no stopping it?
If most people are not observing the lockdown WhyThe F”%# are the rest of us bothering to adhere to the rules? If you’re 80 and high risk do what you gotta do. If you’re healthy and need to work then go ahead and take that insane high risk of getting it and dying. You’ve got more chance of getting hit by a cricket ball in the forehead at the IPL when you’re in a VIP box...bending down...with a helmet on...behind a plate glass window.
Watch what happens in SA. Ramaphosa has just called up 70 000 troops to enforce the lockdown and his pet moron here is absolutely bound to copy him.
The world has gone mad.

[Googly]

Until countries start spending a huge percentage of their resources on testing people for who’s HAD it every decision they make is shooting from the hip and you can f eel free to believe any conspiracy theory you like because it’s probably true.
Governments are crashing the world without the key number!!

[Kriterion_BD]

Anybody that wants to listen to Trump and inject themselves with disinfectant must be encouraged at all costs, they should helicopter the disinfectant, needles and syringes into them so they don’t waste another second taking up space and stealing oxygen. There are far too many stupid people in the world, I’d be culling on IQ, far simpler.

If people inject toilet cleaner, who will be left alive to vote for Trump in November?

[Kriterion_BD]

Kriterion, The left pie and misrepresent all the time. ALL the time. You can't be debated against if you are blind to that because you're not playing on the field with the rest of us from that angle if you can't see that. Even Zimbo5 (thanks for the kind words earlier btw) can see it and he's backing you up for everything else. And it is consistent.

I've always played on the data-driven, scientific field. The onus is on others to get on a similar evidence-based field and off the speculative field or heresay.

If you can provide me a list of CONSISTENT, VERIFIABLE lies peddled by mainstream liberal pundits (eg but not limited to a Bill Maher or Anderson Cooper), I won't have much choice but to agree with you.

For example, many right wing pundits claim that millions of non-citizen's are voting in elections:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlUaHNEe7iM

There is no evidence that non-citizens are voting in substantial numbers. https://time.com/4669899/illegal-citizens-voting-trump/

As an aside, isn't the admission that non-whites would automatically vote for the other guy, also an admission that conservative policies are exclusively pro-white ie white nationalist? If the answer is no, then how do we know these alleged illegal votes all went against Trump?

There's a lot more debunked race-centric theories, like thousands of Arabs in New Jersey celebrating on 911, yet the local police said it never happened.

[Jemisi]

Kriterion the qualifiers you have capitalised raise my eyebrow. Why would you disagree with zimbos' generalisation of lies on both sides?

We live in different contexts where the right and left balance is different. But we have plenty of people on the left who lie. Of course we do, they're people looking for power.

The seismic shift that has occurred in America is that the right were traditionally arguing for truth but they have now hitched their wagon to a bloke who has ditched the truth as a value.

Suddenly all my left wing postmodernist mates really care about objective reality once more. One good consequence of Trump's egregious falsehoods is that the left are a little less pushy about 'truths' and are more likely to recognise the importance of Truth.

This may never have been an issue for you personally but it has a long history in the academy. The problem is the right got sick of the goal posts being moved and just decided to call everything fake news. This is not because right wing people are more likely to lie or are dumber or whatever. You reap what you sow.

If you can't see lies on the left it is because the left are much more likely to tell lies of omission.

[zimbos_05]

To say that no country has had a lockdown is just a complete lie. New Zealand, Italy, Spain, Singapore, Japan, Korea...It's also very interesting to argue, particularly in Aus, that the lockdown is made by people to destroy the economy considering how money focused the Liberal govt is. Trump came out saying the flu kills more people every year, about 33k. Now the US is well past that number in only a few weeks. So I guess ignoring the facts and continuing to bark on about opening things up must just be a fun way to pass time. Perhaps take up a hobby. I hear knitting is relaxing.

As for Sweden, 17567 cases, 550 recovered and 2152 deaths. It does not take a maths genius, but those numbers really do paint a positive picture....

The stats don't lie. Places that have observed lockdowns and proper restrictions have lower cases and more chance of recovery. Places that have not have felt the full brunt of it. It really is a non argument, but I suppose the right have to argue about something.

As for the media, it's like talking to a brick wall. In the UK and Aus, Rupert Murdoch owns a majority of print and TV media including the largest published and read paper, The Sun, The Times, and BskyB. The Daily Mail (very right wing) owns about 4 papers in the UK as well as ITN broadcasting. Richard Desmond owns the Daily Express (extreme right wing, bordering on terrorism) and Channel 5.

In the US there are 6 companies that own most of the media, not all of them are involved in News, which leaves Murdoch in charge of FOX, Wall Street Journal and The New York Post. Time Warner owns CNN and GE owns NBC. Those three control majority of the news. In Aus, Murdoch owns pretty much every single news paper, Foxtel and Sky News. He controls the media narrative here and it's proven how they report fake news and push political bias and agenda blatantly. The Liberal party here is basically his tool.

@Kriterion. Please do not stoop low. We have already agreed that the right are better at consistently lying. I'm not going to provide proof because the proof you are asking for does not exist.

In saying that, all I am saying is that you have to acknowledge that there are times when the left have lied, not as consistently and regularly as the right, but they have done it.

Once you acknowledge that, then you are able to create ways to limit that and fix it. A small lie is not justifiable because someone else continually does a big lie.

[Kriterion_BD]

Kriterion the qualifiers you have capitalised raise my eyebrow. Why would you disagree with zimbos' generalisation of lies on both sides?

@Kriterion. Please do not stoop low. We have already agreed that the right are better at consistently lying. I'm not going to provide proof because the proof you are asking for does not exist.

In saying that, all I am saying is that you have to acknowledge that there are times when the left have lied, not as consistently and regularly as the right, but they have done it.

All I'm saying is that in general the left follows the data to reach a conclusion, whereas the right takes a conclusion to arrive at data to support only that conclusion. This is one reason why the left's platforms are more fluid over time than the right's.

[ZIMDOGGY]

That's so wrong.

The lefts playbook is basically call someone a nazi when they disagree with their ideologies, and excuse away behaviour or starts that don't match their world view or protected groups.

The right tends to use common sense way more.
Look at the whole Jussie Smollet ridiculousness and even when his lies were exposed a lot still rallied behind him.

All the fake hate crimes and such.

Maybe the left are just easy to manipulate and gullible.