[Match Thread] Afghanistan v Zimbabwe: 2nd ODI

[CrimsonAvenger]

If this is not the worst year for a follower of Zimbabwean cricket, tell me which one was. In full view of the world's unforgiving eyes, we have messed up match after match big time. Extremely depressing. It all ends here. More of the same next year, I suppose...

[eugene]

So, was hhm right about Whatmore? Mangongo would have been crucified on this forum if results like this happened under his watch.

[Kriterion_BD]

Yeah HHM was right on that regard. mind you Mangongo most likely was an inept dimwit, but he would have been ridiculed a lomg time ago.

[CrimsonAvenger]

I guess it is not about who the coach is, given the insanity of selections, batting orders, preferred batting positions of players, etc., no coach can do much with this team, as probably observed by aydee long ago. Only thing we can cling on to in identifying the capability of a coach is by looking at the anecdotal evidences, as it was in case of Grant Flower working with Taylor, Mawoyo and Hamilton (and those 3 acknowledging) and the results were there to be seen.

Surely, there are no such anecdotes about Whatmore bringing much of a change in anyone's game individually or for the team as a whole. The batting success in the CWC was due to extreme batting friendly conditions (and that's why I would not support Coltart's argument of Andy Waller's influence on the batting form upswing) made to attract viewership and sudden purple patch of Taylor. Only inspired decision of Whatmore seems to be batting Ervine at 3 in ODIs. Jury is still out on that one. He hasn't been consistent enough to call that a masterstroke. In fact, that decision was already overturned (and rightly so) yesterday when Hamilton got in at 3. If he can't figure out playing Raza at the top of the order in Asian conditions, or if he can't adequately explain Masakadza's exclusion, if he can't identify the hitting potential of Vitori, then his credentials as an astute coach must be questioned, no doubt. Ranatunga hasn't got as much credit for the SL 1996 win as Whatmore has, purely because SL and its players were almost an unknown entity prior to that World Cup.

And the forum's anger at Mangongo was not about his inability in bringing major improvements, but about his handling of the players, which were again out in the open as anecdotes. Negative ones in this case. Panyangara videogate, dropping Taylor after reducing his responsibilities for no reason, breast beating and sending out public demeaning warnings to Hamilton and Vusi, shambles of Williams exclusion from the BD tour (no doubt Williams had an equal share there), the M'Shangwe incident and more. Not how one handles grown up responsible folks.

So, the ire at Mangongo were justified, and to expect same level of ire against Whatmore is not, as he has not affected players' psyche as Mangongo had. But to express disappointment over Whatmore's period as national coach and to call for his removal is totally justified. Let us not mix hhm's ulterior motives and look at that as justification just because the ultimate results seem to match.

EDIT: I have no idea why I even bothered writing this. Given the state our team is in, who really cares? But may be just another attempt at logical argument vs fanatic instigation. Don't want to see a version 4.0 getting excited and signing up after reading that.

[bayhaus]

So, was hhm right about Whatmore? Mangongo would have been crucified on this forum if results like this happened under his watch.

thats a very honest statement, havent heard a word on Dav for the past 5 pages. I think he is getting a pass cos he is not sayng anything, and there is no 'drama' off the feild either. Had it been Mangongo...

then his credentials as an astute coach must be questioned, no doubt.

But to express disappointment over Whatmore's period as national coach and to call for his removal is totally justified.

Mangongo was trying all sorts of things trying to rectify a problem which I also see which is our players were a bunch of spolit, privleged brats acting like kids and he wanted to smack that attitude out of them! he just didnt do it properly but I think he was on the money, cos these men did act like boys, kids and needed 'hardening up'.

I have said it before that at this stage its not about the coach some of these guys are far gone and can't be helped, mostly because of their OWN attitudes towards the game. Whether technically or psychologically. Next year there will be retirements whether forced or otherwise.

I dont see us beating AFG 3 in a row (Thats how far we have come ). So when Dav comes from dubai there has to be serious talk about his position. But like all things ZC for him to even agree to come, there would have been lopsided deals so even if he doesnt perform nothing will happen. Yesterdays match report no comment from the coach...

[ZIMDOGGY]

Whoever the next coach is, he has to be a master of the mind, we need a Tony Robbins, Jordan Belfort or even a Donald Trump sort of person.

Someone to excite them, get them to aim high and pump them up and get over their fears.

[eugene]

Donald Trump could make Zimbabwe win again. Let's build a wall to keep all of our young cricketers from leaving.

[jamthala]

yesterday performance was not good,

get select best team zim cricket.

[Kriterion_BD]

^and get England to pay for that wall. But Raza would have to be deported.

[reverbinstinct]

Well summed up by crimson..dav whatmore should count his remaining days as the head coach of zc..and it might not be his fault completely but if elton chigumbura is not going to resign from captaincy voluntarily after this series, he would have no regard for his own reputation..change of captaincy is long overdue..if its not done,things are just gonna stay put,.thats the hard truth. Not saying it would work,but in a stage like this,its definitely worth to give the responsiblity to raza..
AW COME on selectors!there is absolutely nothing to lose now to try his luck!..it could be a welcome change before wt20..Elton could then concentrate on his batting freely!...
And the next issue is not being able to find a proper wicketkeeping batsmen AT ALL since the departure of taylor..almost a year wasted in futilely recycling the duo of mutumbami and chakabva...Hope moor can kick on and give a solution to that quandary..