Zimbabwe vs Afghanistan | Second Test | 02 January 2025 - 06 January 2025 | Queens Sports Club

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mnelson68
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Re: Zimbabwe vs Afghanistan | Second Test | 02 January 2025 - 06 January 2025 | Queens Sports Club

Post by mnelson68 »

sam_ahm wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2025 6:42 pm
From what I've seen so far, I can say that Ben Curran is a better player than both Bennett and Campbell... And I have a feeling that N Welch would be better than those two as well, going by his domestic numbers.

I'm not saying that Bennett isn't good. He is very good, but I'm being realistic here. I know they can't select more than 4 white players in the team and at the moment, until Ervine and Williams retire those 4 best white test players are N Welch, B Curran, Ervine and Willo... Once the latter two retire then Bennett and Burl/Campbell can get in. Yes, I feel Burl will make a good test player.

The problem here once again is that there aren't enough coloured batters who are making a case for themselves, which makes team selection very difficult because ideally on merit there could be 6 white players in there + Raza... But we can't play such a combination.
There shouldn't be a problem , pick your best team whether you are black , white or bloody pink who the hell cares . It's a fact that the coloured batsman aren't as good but get most of the opportunities to play.
My ideal test X1 would be in battiing order
B.Bennett
B.Curran
N.Welch
C.Ervine
S.Williams
S.Raza
J.Campbell
C.Madande
N.Nyamhuri
R.Ngarava
B.Muzarabani

Googly
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Re: Zimbabwe vs Afghanistan | Second Test | 02 January 2025 - 06 January 2025 | Queens Sports Club

Post by Googly »

TapsC2 wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2025 7:06 pm
And what about the last domestic season? NW struggled just like Curran did when he started out. We always talk about them trying to unearth a world class talent and they they have been failing. If you look at Dion or Maru or Bennetts domestic numbers, they are the same as Curran and NW this season but we all see how it's not easy facing Rashid Khan. All I'm saying is that this constant push to select NW might backfire because he might not find it easy initially. If he comes in and struggles after all this pressure to select him you won't hear the end of it.

I don't believe there is a quota. It's a slippery slope always blaming that for our failures when we failed in 2018 with 6 white players in that team. There is no magic wand solution for our problems. It's going to take time for the new generation to get it right. Years.. it's a structural problem mainly caused by a weak domestic system filled with toothless bowlers.
It's not really a case of it backfiring or having to stomach a gloating Zolsky though. Surely we are way past that now? There are guys there that have now had multiple games and they've not done a lot to merit further selection. 2 months of intense practice, coaching and games and theyve all drawn a blank. At the end of the day we've potentially got about 4 guys left to try-
Welchx2
Campbell
Higgins
Try Chakabva, Kaia and Maruma again?
They could give Taruvinga or Kamwemba 100 games ea? Don't discount that. One of them just needs one hundred.
God forbid Wes gets another.
May as well get on with it because we're getting down to the sharp end now. Try these dudes, give them 20 games as opposed to the 50 and 100 games the other failures have had, choose the best 15 and pray for miracles.

Kriterion_BD
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Re: Zimbabwe vs Afghanistan | Second Test | 02 January 2025 - 06 January 2025 | Queens Sports Club

Post by Kriterion_BD »

TapsC2 wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2025 7:06 pm
I don't believe there is a quota. It's a slippery slope always blaming that for our failures when we failed in 2018 with 6 white players in that team. There is no magic wand solution for our problems. It's going to take time for the new generation to get it right. Years.. it's a structural problem mainly caused by a weak domestic system filled with toothless bowlers.
There's a lot of truth to that. 2018 there were 6 whites + Raza, only 4 blacks and ZIM still choked at the final hurdle. That being said, its also true that the black batters across formats, have had little to show, despite playing hundreds of innings between them over the past several years.

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engin ... pe=batting

From the turn of this decade the two best averages across all 3 formats is Prince Mausavare at 31.41 followed by Kasuza at 22.63.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYq6auq5cyQ (Jaylen Brown, 2024 NBA Finals MVP)

Pat_Bee
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Re: Zimbabwe vs Afghanistan | Second Test | 02 January 2025 - 06 January 2025 | Queens Sports Club

Post by Pat_Bee »

I’m not convinced by this quota at all. It’s clutching at straws. Like the addition of Jonno and Nick Welch would have changed the outcome of this test in any way :lol: Jonno and Nick Welch would have got those 10 Afghan wickets in their second dig any quicker? Nah, they wouldn’t. That’s the innings it was lost this time, old Rahmat and his buddy putting on like 139 run partnership when they were on the ropes. They were like 4 or 5 down before they’d even reached parity then took it away from us.

Killer instinct is what’s missing.

Gumbie did his job 3 out of 4 times this series, didn’t make as many runs as he could have perhaps, but no need when his mate is at the other end scoring. This is test match cricket, not t20. He’s taking the shine off the ball for an hour or more and tiring the bowlers. I wouldn’t have him keeping and opening though. Just seems hard work on his part.

Sweep shot :lol: :lol: the guys seem to randomly bring it out when there’s no need. Zero situational awareness. Could see old raz dawg itching to play his favoured pull shot through both knocks but he kept it in the locker pretty well. Credit to him.

Yeah this quota business :lol: what quota? 4 varungu in the first test plus jonno as sub fielder for long stretches, 4 varungu and raza, plus jonno as sub fielder in the second test. Jonno first choice sub fielder ahead of lord maru or whoever. That’s a lot of none black involvement. What other varungu would you pick? NW who got c&b by Wez today, Wez who can’t do anything right :lol: jonno is getting a feel for high pressure international games without the pressure of having to bat and bowl. Will better serve him in the long run.

Will end badly with Higgins :lol: of course it will.

Lanzoni needs to adjust the colour settings on his tv yo. 99.9% black spectators my foot :lol: :lol: 50/50 on the stream I was watching, easily. This isn’t Salisbury with 10k affies packed into castle corner.

So anyway :lol: this quota, what would the excuses be when there’s like 8 varungu, raz dawg, blessing and Richie and we’re still losing every game

Pat_Bee
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Re: Zimbabwe vs Afghanistan | Second Test | 02 January 2025 - 06 January 2025 | Queens Sports Club

Post by Pat_Bee »

Even the administration and lack of facilities is an excuse :lol: it’s a modern thing. You just go out there and play, it’s not hard. It’s down to the 2 guys with the bats in their hands or the 11 guys on the field. Excuses and everything else stops at the boundary rope. Mr makoni’s pointy shoes and green label didn’t lose this series :lol:

Playing cricket is so easy BT and regis chakabva could do it off their faces most of the time :lol: :lol: what makes it hard is making it feel hard hey.

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andrea lanzoni
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Re: Zimbabwe vs Afghanistan | Second Test | 02 January 2025 - 06 January 2025 | Queens Sports Club

Post by andrea lanzoni »

Pat Bee, I saw a few white people under the trees applauding. I counted less than ten.
Obviously no sure, but I suspect they were just relatives of the players...

When cameramen turned on the stands I didn't see 1 ( in lettters: one) white man. My stat stands.

I have a 47" LED TV set, what brand (if any) is yours?

Pat_Bee
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Re: Zimbabwe vs Afghanistan | Second Test | 02 January 2025 - 06 January 2025 | Queens Sports Club

Post by Pat_Bee »

I don’t even own a TV :lol: and no way there was a 10k attendance each day which a 0.01% attendance of 10 varungu under the trees would contribute to :lol:

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zimbos_05
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Re: Zimbabwe vs Afghanistan | Second Test | 02 January 2025 - 06 January 2025 | Queens Sports Club

Post by zimbos_05 »

Pat_Bee wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2025 9:38 pm

Gumbie did his job 3 out of 4 times this series, didn’t make as many runs as he could have perhaps, but no need when his mate is at the other end scoring. This is test match cricket, not t20. He’s taking the shine off the ball for an hour or more and tiring the bowlers. I wouldn’t have him keeping and opening though. Just seems hard work on his part.
Are you serious? His job is not just to stand there and block. If anything he did his job 1 out of 4 times. In his four innings he scored,

9 (30) at a SR of 30
24 (48) at a SR of 41
8 (28) at a SR of 28
15 (45) at a SR of 33

He only really performed when it didn't really matter. The rest of the time he did nothing. The opener is there to see off the new ball, but also need to ensure they set the tone. If they are going at such a low RR they are setting up the rest of the team to struggle because when they lose their wicket, they haven't really done anything and the batsmen coming in have to start again.

His jobs is to keep things ticking over even if it is just singled and doubles. Rotate the strike, keep the bowlers honest and keep the captain thinking.

I'm not sure I agree with the quota idea at the moment, but I definitely agree with favouritism. The black players have a much longer rope than the white players. Either way, our system is still very lacking. To have lost to Afghanistan in all three series should be a shame, especially considering how many times we had them on the ropes.

Googly
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Re: Zimbabwe vs Afghanistan | Second Test | 02 January 2025 - 06 January 2025 | Queens Sports Club

Post by Googly »

I'm not sure where Prince is, I'm assuming he's injured? I'm sure they'll have another look at him because he did well in a Test a year ago. He's technically sound though, it would have been interesting to see how he went against the spin.
My issue with Prince is his conditioning, it smacks of I don't care too much. He's not a bad part time bowler either. He's a decent cricketer.
KK is also a good player and a staunch Takas lad, it's surprising he hasn't had more opportunity.

Googly
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Re: Zimbabwe vs Afghanistan | Second Test | 02 January 2025 - 06 January 2025 | Queens Sports Club

Post by Googly »

Pat_Bee wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2025 9:38 pm
I’m not convinced by this quota at all. It’s clutching at straws. Like the addition of Jonno and Nick Welch would have changed the outcome of this test in any way :lol: Jonno and Nick Welch would have got those 10 Afghan wickets in their second dig any quicker? Nah, they wouldn’t. That’s the innings it was lost this time, old Rahmat and his buddy putting on like 139 run partnership when they were on the ropes. They were like 4 or 5 down before they’d even reached parity then took it away from us.

Killer instinct is what’s missing.

Gumbie did his job 3 out of 4 times this series, didn’t make as many runs as he could have perhaps, but no need when his mate is at the other end scoring. This is test match cricket, not t20. He’s taking the shine off the ball for an hour or more and tiring the bowlers. I wouldn’t have him keeping and opening though. Just seems hard work on his part.

Sweep shot :lol: :lol: the guys seem to randomly bring it out when there’s no need. Zero situational awareness. Could see old raz dawg itching to play his favoured pull shot through both knocks but he kept it in the locker pretty well. Credit to him.

Yeah this quota business :lol: what quota? 4 varungu in the first test plus jonno as sub fielder for long stretches, 4 varungu and raza, plus jonno as sub fielder in the second test. Jonno first choice sub fielder ahead of lord maru or whoever. That’s a lot of none black involvement. What other varungu would you pick? NW who got c&b by Wez today, Wez who can’t do anything right :lol: jonno is getting a feel for high pressure international games without the pressure of having to bat and bowl. Will better serve him in the long run.

Will end badly with Higgins :lol: of course it will.

Lanzoni needs to adjust the colour settings on his tv yo. 99.9% black spectators my foot :lol: :lol: 50/50 on the stream I was watching, easily. This isn’t Salisbury with 10k affies packed into castle corner.

So anyway :lol: this quota, what would the excuses be when there’s like 8 varungu, raz dawg, blessing and Richie and we’re still losing every game
Everyone looks for excuses and here we will always find lots of them. No High performance centres, poor coaching, they've removed whites from the franchises and clubs effectively cutting our feeder system by about 70%, they don't pay franchise players enuf to survive, let alone practice and play with clear heads.
We've got players being picked after coming out of a weak franchise system ill equipped to jump into a much higher level of cricket (Remember that debate where folk believed our franchise bowling was ok!!).

Assume they did pick 6 white guys and we still got beat, which is highly likely. Do you now say- well that didn't work, we'd may as well stick with our weaker team?

Let's be totally honest with ourselves- we're back to the days where we are going to have to learn to compete at this level all over again regardless of who gets picked. It has to be with guys who desperately believe they can compete and win, guys who will practice for hours and hours and guys who have the highest ceiling. This last part is the all-important one. When we get to world cup time we're going to face all these teams with tricky spinners. We have to pick the guys that can play them.

Spare a thought for the players we do have that put in good performances, they must be mentally fatigued from constantly getting beaten and knowing we're not fielding the strongest side.

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