"Hats off to Grant Flower": Waqar

[CrimsonAvenger]

From the recent Waqar Younis Interview: http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/co ... 35001.html

Basically at this level it should be about fine-tuning youngsters coming from the domestic level. But it doesn't work like this here. We don't have a system like this. It's a harder job and I am up for it.

We have seen a clear difference with Grant Flower as batting coach, so hats off to him. We recently calculated how many runs we have scored during this span.

[jaybro]

I thought he useless and all the batsman were doing worse under him

[bavuma_rabada]

This article is not about Grant Flower. It's about Waqar.

The irony of it is the players who were doing well for Pakistan all along long, regardless of Grant are the ones respnsible for the team's progress.

You are not a selector but obviously you have some role to play. How do you judge a player's chances of playing for Pakistan?
I always look at a player's temperament. How much does he want to learn, how much energy can he give to the team. We are very lucky to have players like Misbah-ul-Haq, Younis Khan, Azhar Ali and Asad Shafiq. That's why the Test team looks settled.

The ones on whom Grant Flower should be having an impact are failing - Umar Akmal and Ahmed Shehzad. Safraz has been regressing a lot lately too.

What exactly did you expect? Waqar to bad-mouth his assistant to the press?

[bavuma_rabada]

Always read what fans have to say - good and bad.

PakPassion Thank You Mr. Grant Flower......... http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/archi ... 27867.html

Thanks for what? for the 3-0 loss to Bangs bro?
The major reason of batting unit clicking is the performance of malik and Rizwan, who just came into the team.You should be thankful if he can make Shezy rotate the strike, or atleast have him fired

What has Grant done?
The players who were already playing when he came have further regressed. Shehzad, Umar Akmal, Jamshed.
It's only the new breed of batsmen in Azhar, Rizwan, Sarfraz, Babar who have been doing well, and that too since their domestic days.
Not sure why you're crediting their batting ability to Grant. If you look closely, the players who needed improvement were not able to do so, he rather needs to be criticized.

LOL and people were calling for his head not a few months ago!

It's too soon to give any credit to him, wait until Pakistan tours England and Australia our batters have struggled the most in those places, soflower would've made no difference if they fail over there

New guy comes in, rinse and repeat. Flower is going a good job, the guys who are flopping now flopped before, so maybe its down to work ethic,attitude or just plain sucking, something no coach can fix. The new guys doing well seem to be far hungrier and honest than the players they replaced, so are more likely to respond to Flowers methods. So he definitely deserves credit for their performances, debutants dont just magically perform well. Getting rid of him would be a massive mistake, and its no coincidence his good friend and fellow Zimbo Streak has worked wonders with Bangladesh's bowling unit.

[CrimsonAvenger]

There, jumping the gun, as always. The question asked there was "What's your philosophy as coach?". He was not even explicitly asked about Grant and he mentioned him. So, there was no question of trying to be politically correct. Also, Younis Khan has highlighted Grant's role in the past. What is wrong in rejoicing the success of a fellow Zimbabwean on the world stage? I'm not even campaigning for him to come back to the Zim setup you see, which might be a problem for you. Just a genuine recognition from the Pak coach, senior Pak batsman being highlighted.

[bavuma_rabada]

This is not the first Grant Flower thread, and they are being posted to prove a certain point which people misread my view about him. I don't think I'm the one jumping the gun. It is not normal for someone to go out of their way to extract a single mention of a coach and turn it into a thread. Even in the ZCF, that's rare and motivated by something based on a misunderstanding. Grant is fine, but he would have to give attention to EVERY Zimbabwean cricketer, otherwise like before, most other players will detect that favouritism, stop seeking his advice or responding to him, and ZC will have no choice but to fire him again and he along with his sympathisers will resort to "they are lazy and don't want to stay longer with me in the nets". Pakistan will be simpler. He has no attachment, and the seniors - Younis&Misbah are&were greater than him so he keeps out of their way. Same with Fletcher and Viru, Sachin, Dravid, Laxman, Zaheer etc and to a lesser extent Dhoni&Gambhir. He would only really have influence on guys like Kohli, Raina, Ishant, Rohit etc.

[foreignfield]

It is not normal for someone to go out of their way to extract a single mention of a coach and turn it into a thread. Even in the ZCF, that's rare and motivated by something based on a misunderstanding.

There is one emoticon which I'm missing terribly lately: Yawn!

We've got threads about Friday Kasteni playing in the Australian bush, Dion Ebrahims exploits in NZ club cricket, and in the Photo Quiz we've featured about every single black African cricketer with a few List A or Fc matches who has been forced out of the country and is now making a living in SA, the UK, Canada or Aus.

Stop moaning, and stop behaving as if you were trapped for life in ZCF's apartheid system (your Tutu quote the other day!). This is an internet community, and if you don't like the vibe, you might as well leave. But please stop insinuating sinister motives to each and everyone!

[eugene]

We do discuss almost every player here. Why? Because we love Zimbabwean cricket.

[bavuma_rabada]

You're probably having a bad day I wouldn't know, but foreignfield what you're saying is totally irrelevant and inconsequential, even eugene is being led down the wrong path due to your failure to understand. You see, you miss the point in the thread, just as you missed the point of that Tutu quote, which taken literally was said in jest. But my meaning of it was it's impossible to sit on the fence in the ZCF. In this instance of your tirade, you only need to read the OP and the the post after that to get the picture, as well as the post on the same subject by sure-shot I think, some time ago linking to Grant, which was more comprehensive and direct. But I doubt you've been following so you won't have a proper idea what's really happening. Only Crimson will know why he posted this, but the sudden urge to "defend" Grant Flower did not appear from thin air, nor was is it genuinely motivated by a harmless intention to celebrate someone's success (based on one sentence which I found unusual especially from Socrates), or love as eugene says.

As a side not and from a general perspective, you should read up on assocation fallacy, or rather fallacies in arguments as a whole. It will help some burst less capillaries.

[foreignfield]

I know full well what this all about, and for someone who deliberately goes out of his way to extract some tiny bit of cleverly tailored statistical evidence to put down players and coaches, it is extremely rich to call it "not normal" when someone else is using a quote to make a point contrary to your views.