Is Zim improving?

[Boundary]

Yes we are improving. It would have been easy to lose by an innings to Pak and by 100 runs to NZ but we have more spine now. If we consistently get 350 runs per innings and bowl out at least once a match, we could snatch draws all over the place and that realistically is what we are worth now. However, since this is sport, I can see us upsetting NZ, WI, maybe Pak and SL.We aren't good enough to beat England, SA or Aus yet but we are a test side finally. The NZ test in January should give people enough warning.

[Jemisi]

Yeah, we are at least making the opposition work for their wins. That is a key indicator.

[eugene]

Zimbabwe is definately improving. We are still below New Zealand but we are at least more consistent than Bangladesh. I am sure many will disagree with me, particularly the eternal optimists, but I don't feel Zimbabwe will ever be a cricketing super power - I can never ever see us winning the test championship or ODI World Cup. I think the best we can hope for is to be competitive and cause the odd upset and maybe win a random ODI Tournament - much like New Zealand. As critical of Bangladesh most people are I think they do have potential to one day be a super power - it may take a long time but they have too many people and too much passion for the game for them to not succeed eventually.

[Jemisi]

I probably agree. Even if we can put together our best ever team, move past a few teams on a down cycle, it is hard to see us getting past ALL of the Big nations in the same era. That is in Test terms.

In the WC I can see our best team having a good run in a knock out situation, I think that isn't impossible.

[Boundary]

Zimbabwe is definately improving. We are still below New Zealand but we are at least more consistent than Bangladesh. I am sure many will disagree with me, particularly the eternal optimists, but I don't feel Zimbabwe will ever be a cricketing super power - I can never ever see us winning the test championship or ODI World Cup. I think the best we can hope for is to be competitive and cause the odd upset and maybe win a random ODI Tournament - much like New Zealand. As critical of Bangladesh most people are I think they do have potential to one day be a super power - it may take a long time but they have too many people and too much passion for the game for them to not succeed eventually.

Population size is a factor true but so is economic power. That's why a 4 million kiwi populace has resources to make themselves competitive. So the crux of the matter, regarding ourselves, is the domestic game. Will it be resourced well enough to produce Andy Flowers consistently? Population wise, without emigration we could be closer to Australia (though of course, not as rich) and if we can produce consummate professionals from our system, we could be neck and neck with NZ for a long time.

[eugene]

Which is what I am saying. I think we can realistically aspire to be as good as New Zealand is. We might be able to match Sri Lanka too, although that is because Sri Lanka has very average talent coming through and no real replacements for Dilshan, Sangakkara, and Jayawardene.

The only thing that may change this is if we get a freakishly talented player who is a match-winner on his own - like Andy Flower. A player like Andy Flower doesn't come around very often though so I wouldn't hold out for that to happen. New Zealand had Richard Hadlee and havent really had anyone since with the same longevity and talent.

[Jemisi]

Freaks do come, key is to have solid support when they do.

[ZIMDOGGY]

Oh freaks come... But the reality of today is those freaks will play under safrucan, kiwi, Aussie, Lebanese and most guilty- English colors.

I point to ballance as evidence.
I also point to pocock, beast and Bruce grobelaar in other sports.

Even if we paid our players we'd struggle.

Can't believe we sewed up Andy (not born in zim) for his whole career.

We will never see an Andy flower again. Even if we had one.

[betterdays]

Oh freaks come... But the reality of today is those freaks will play under safrucan, kiwi, Aussie, Lebanese and most guilty- English colors.

I point to ballance as evidence.
I also point to pocock, beast and Bruce grobelaar in other sports.

Even if we paid our players we'd struggle.

Can't believe we sewed up Andy (not born in zim) for his whole career.

We will never see an Andy flower again. Even if we had one.

I don't think you can compare rugby (or even football) to cricket because when you're really good like the beasts and grobelaars (who, i believe only ever played for Zim in football - though I don't know and am not overly interested anyway).

So, you have Ballance and Ervine - Ervine is easy to dismiss in that it was timely ... the same can probably be said of Ballance - to a lesser degree, as we obviously are paying our players something, but I guess when they weigh up how much they earn in Zim [+ the cache of Int cricket, and kudos for loyalty] vs how much they can earn in UK, it's probably still a no-brainer for those with fairly tenuous ties to Zim.

The other reason, if we do start paying our players a viable wage, which will prevent 'drop-of-the-hat' emmigration will be the future zim's side actual ability/elegibility to do so.

SA may be an option but I would guess that most people who are being paid well enough will stay at home - especially if they are also able to compete at the pinnacle of their sport. Hick would have been a different player in Zim as he would have been appreciated (he was, along with Ramps, very badly managed)...as I think Houghton once inferred.

The long term future - should things continue going forward rather than back - could very possibly produce a more than competitive middle order (3. Goodwin 4. Hick 5. Flower 6. Johnson ... I believe this line-up could have played together - agewise!)

add AC (or someone) and G. Flower to open and you have a batting line-up that would have competed with all but SA and Eng of the current teams.

The point is they 'could' have all played in the same team and they're all as good as Ballance (who 'may' or may not produce the goods ... Eng have a good management system now so he probably will never have to end up on the test scrap heap in the way Hick did).

[Jemisi]

I don't think Ervine counts as he really left in the dark years. Ballance as well was making his decisions during that time. I think if things continue to improve then the younger freaks will have a better chance of staying.