2nd ODI ZIMBABWE VS SRILANKA

[Googly]

This may be the only forum where such topics can be discussed openly. We haven't really flogged it to death either because the reality is only just setting in that 4 of our best players are in the departure lounge and adequate replacements have not emerged. Also only a small number of forumites actually live here and yet they are the most pessimistic and that's not a coincidence. It's very unfortunate there aren't more locals, there used to be. It indicates a loss of interest. Is there more interest in our cricket externally than internally? That would be sad.

Were I in ZC or a supporter I'd engage on this forum because a lot of people read it, yet they steer well clear. If they had clear policies, a road map forward, intent to administrate well, sort out past mistakes then good conversations could be had.
They don't even make regular public statements nor keep people abreast of news through their own formal channels.
If they were transparent, answered questions openly and honestly and tried to restore public confidence they may actually get some Corporate interest. Its sad that their need for silence outweighs the need for Corporate sponsorship.
Theyre far from stupid, they've weighed that up and decided silence is the best policy. Clearly the money coming in is enough
Their PR guys must have the best job on the planet- don't come to work, don't open your mouth and do collect 3k every month.

[Googly]

For me it's clear that our current system, from school through to club and franchise can no longer produce players of international quality. It was marginal back then even, because of the small numbers, but it was leagues ahead of where it is now. There will always be one or two guys that prove that wrong, but as a broad statement that's unfortunately true. The current plan is to throw some young guys in the deep end and see if they can swim. Thats 2004 strategy all over again. We were ten years in the wilderness and never really recovered. This time around there are some older guys to "mentor" them, whether that's happening or not who knows, I have my doubts. Personally I think it's the same all over again.

Zc don't want to improve their age group stuff, don't want an academy, don't want to improve club cricket, don't want to send the better guys to other Academies, they actually don't want to do anything that costs money.

They deliberately dismantled club cricket, resurrected it so they controlled it and I see now they are turning their backs on it and are saying it must run itself. Break it then say you're on your own now is not a good strategy.
We may end up having 12 Takashinga teams playing each other every week. Sadly that would be deemed a success.

There's now only one way to keep our national side vaguely competitive and that's to poach players who've learnt their trade elsewhere. They may choose to remain with their gamble and hope local youngsters become competitive after 50 internationals. That's going to be tough on us and it's long shot territory.

[ZIMDOGGY]

If we are relying on imports then it's basically going to be people who have failed in England.

So we are then hoping that someone who can't crack it in Division 2 of English domestic cricket with world class facilities and coaching, can suddenly come here with almost zero coaching and ropey facilities, and turn on the style in international cricket against the worlds best? Seems wishful thinking.

If Ben Curran can't cement his place at Northants - one of the worst counties - or Nick Welch can't get a game at Leicestershire - an even worse county - then I doubt they will be our saviours.

There is a very small band of players that we want.

A player that is not supremely successful in county, but at the same time does ok, better than ok, but still far enough off international selection for them.

Basically another Willo/BT.

[ZIMDOGGY]

I still have no idea what David Houghton is doing as 'coaching manager', and it seems nobody else really knows either, other than working with Mountaineers.

I hope he is putting in place coaching education, qualification and pathways at various levels. That would be a very big thing. But it will probably take years to see the effects.

What are Jarvis and Chigumbura doing as 'national talent scouts'?. Everyone can tell you who is a decent cricketer in Zim and who isn't. It's not like we have thousands of players to keep track of. Many members on this forum can give aa good guide. Hopefully they are doing something more meaningful and perhaps identifying juniors.

There needs to be a pathway.

School cricket > National age group > Franchise > International.

How do we bridge the absolutely gigantic gaps between each of those stages? How do we create a smooth high performance pathway that identified the best talent, retains that talent, develops it and prepares it for international cricket?

We are a million miles away.

The only value I see in those guys is going overseas to entice the diaspora back.
We talked about it a few months ago, the theory that Jarvis was hired to seduce the white kids back to ZC somehow and Elton to entice back the niggas.
That seems a bit of a binary thought process but I reckon in Africa this could be the thought process.

But if Kyle can get the Welches. Schadendorfs, Cartwrights or even a ballance back, and Elton gets Matigimu or even Muyeye Itll be a real success regardless.

I think we are also going to need to convince Ervine to go until he is 40.

[TapsC2]

For me it's clear that our current system, from school through to club and franchise can no longer produce players of international quality. It was marginal back then even, because of the small numbers, but it was leagues ahead of where it is now. There will always be one or two guys that prove that wrong, but as a broad statement that's unfortunately true. The current plan is to throw some young guys in the deep end and see if they can swim. Thats 2004 strategy all over again. We were ten years in the wilderness and never really recovered. This time around there are some older guys to "mentor" them, whether that's happening or not who knows, I have my doubts. Personally I think it's the same all over again.

Zc don't want to improve their age group stuff, don't want an academy, don't want to improve club cricket, don't want to send the better guys to other Academies, they actually don't want to do anything that costs money.

They deliberately dismantled club cricket, resurrected it so they controlled it and I see now they are turning their backs on it and are saying it must run itself. Break it then say you're on your own now is not a good strategy.
We may end up having 12 Takashinga teams playing each other every week. Sadly that would be deemed a success.

There's now only one way to keep our national side vaguely competitive and that's to poach players who've learnt their trade elsewhere. They may choose to remain with their gamble and hope local youngsters become competitive after 50 internationals. That's going to be tough on us and it's long shot territory.

How much school cricket did we actually play? What I remember is that there was 6 weeks at the beginning of the year then another 6 weeks from September before exams. 12 weeks and a few T20 tournaments. Maybe a SA tour at the end of the year. I think Peterhouse were just in SA, lost to St Andrews, beat Pearson and Kingswood. After 2 years of no action due to COVID. I'm sure all the top schools will resume touring this year. Andy Waller is the coach.

What really did was club cricket. At the moment Bulawayo and Harare got their own club scene. Midlands also has one. That's where Kaitano popped up from I think.

The biggest challenge I think cricket suffers at age group level is that it might be the 4th most popular sport after Soccer, Rugby and maybe even Basketball.

[TapsC2]

There will also be a lot of kids who grew up in the diaspora that could be convinced to come back and play. We will see a lot of UK and SA raised kids popping up in all sports over the next few decades. Think about some of those reserves who suddenly pitched up in the Caribbean or the Zim kid who is a reserve for the SA u19 side. Or kids who just do their high school in SA like Taruvinga. I guess that is where somebody like Jarvis could come in and convince them.you need somebody you respect to do that.

The truth is you only need maybe 2 of those kind of guys out of 15 players every cycle. It's very possible

[secretzimbo]

Some great points made by all sides tbh.

Lobsang's point about the admins needing to keep our heads above water to keep raking their salaries in is a good point. Zimbos_05 is right that this is terrible/wrong/ridiculous as well. It's awful that we are in such a situation and being run by such a person/people but it is what it is. It seems in the last couple of years that Mukulhani and the rest of the idiot/thieves have worked out which side their bread is buttered; it's in their interests for us to remain relatively competitive. Of course whether they are capable and competent enough to actually ensure this is another question.

Apologies to those complaining we were being pessimistic. I'd say realistic. I really want to be positive and as a fan I hope everything myself or Googly or doggy or 05 have said is proved wrong of course.

There are some positives you know. The key one is that people still care. For every bad person involved in cricket in Zim there are plenty of good ones. The problem is that we have the bad people in positions of influence and power. BUT, as long as we have people that care then we will survive. I'm definitely not a doom monger who thinks cricket will die. We've hd 18 years of people saying that, and yet we continue to defy the odds. We've still got guys spending their weekends trying to sort out facilities. We've still got coaches going out to primary schools and coaching unpaid. We've still got a lot of guys playing in the franchise game who really do love the game, and I hope will contribute after their retirements.

Our current U19 batch looks really impressive. We just keep defying the odds. That's a positive. Nothing seems able to kill Zim cricket. We keep churning them out somehow.

Another positive is that small improvements could be made relatively cheaply and easily. It wouldn't cost much or be difficult to ensure next season that we have 10 overseas players playing - 2 for each franchise. It wouldn't cost to ensure that every side has an U19 player playing as well. Simple ways to improve the quality without much expense here.

Another positive, we've played quite a lot of domestic cricket during the pandemic, when ZC could easily have got away with far less. This is the longest Logan Cup season for several years. I think we've got our priorities regarding formats mixed up though. Either way, ZC are arranging more cricket than they have to, and that's a positive sign. We just need more white ball now.

Another positive, appointing Houghton in that role seems to suggest the are interested in improving the fundamentals throughout the system.


I think we are going to struggle massively to replace the big four, and it is very soon that we need to. I don't think the extent of that challenge has really hit people yet. But then you know, I do think we will survive. It might be a rough few years, and yeah, the board/whoever are really going to have to get their arses in gear at some point.

The real things to reform and club cricket and school cricket (especially government school). But then I don't know if the administration has the will, the funds, or the competency and capability to do so.

[secretzimbo]

I hear Peterhouse got thrashed in SA. Still, good to see a school playing again.

We really need to get the government schools up and running again though.

[ZIMDOGGY]

The biggest challenge I think cricket suffers at age group level is that it might be the 4th most popular sport after Soccer, Rugby and maybe even Basketball.

I dont think that is a huge issue, kids who have an affinity for cricket may not be suitable for those sports, but also ZC is more lucrative in zim than those sports.

Also if you look at Australia for example. The state of NSW produces over half the talent in the Aussie team traditionally, sometimes as high as 9 players.
They subsidise talent to other states, Tasmania especially, but NSW also has a huge 20% + Asian population that does not care one bit about cricket. As well as lebs, islanders that also do not care.
And in terms of popularity the sports is wayyyyyyyy less popular than rugby league and participation rates alot lower than soccer.
I read news daily out of nsw and any major story out of the NRL (and there are alot as the players are overpampered blue collar idiots) will trump the sports pages and relegate anything cricket related every time.
However this is winter v Summer.
The Aussie mindset across the country over is Winter, all focus is on football, aussie rules in the South/western states and NRL in the Eastern. no one even thinks about cricket then, and then in Summer cricket becomes popular again, so kids can play both sports.
It is actually a struggle because the junior cricket season starts 2 weeks after the football season (all codes) finish and kids dont think about the cricker season ahead and dint register because their minds are focused on football until seasons are finished. Makes planning hard.

The ultimate point is these sports can co exist, they are very different in nature.
it is not like rugby league and rugby Union where union cannibalises league in Southern England and Northern France and League cannibalises Union in Australia.
If there was no NRL the wallabies would almost be undefeated every game.

[zimbos_05]

This may be the only forum where such topics can be discussed openly. We haven't really flogged it to death either because the reality is only just setting in that 4 of our best players are in the departure lounge and adequate replacements have not emerged. Also only a small number of forumites actually live here and yet they are the most pessimistic and that's not a coincidence. It's very unfortunate there aren't more locals, there used to be. It indicates a loss of interest. Is there more interest in our cricket externally than internally? That would be sad.

Were I in ZC or a supporter I'd engage on this forum because a lot of people read it, yet they steer well clear. If they had clear policies, a road map forward, intent to administrate well, sort out past mistakes then good conversations could be had.
They don't even make regular public statements nor keep people abreast of news through their own formal channels.
If they were transparent, answered questions openly and honestly and tried to restore public confidence they may actually get some Corporate interest. Its sad that their need for silence outweighs the need for Corporate sponsorship.
Theyre far from stupid, they've weighed that up and decided silence is the best policy. Clearly the money coming in is enough
Their PR guys must have the best job on the planet- don't come to work, don't open your mouth and do collect 3k every month.

Never thought I would, but I agree with so much of this post.

In saying that, it is ZC, so asking them to be stupid and upfront is nigh on impossible.

If there's one player I would throw money at, it's Cartwright. He's out of the aus set up and I'm sure he'd be enticed by the prospect in playing International T20 world cup this year. I know ZC would want players paying Zim domestic, but honestly, I think it's a dumb rule. At least not until they can get their house in order. I would allow him to stay and play in in Aus because will be up against world class players and will develop well. He's had a good BBL too. I know it's wishful thinking, but in a proper run set up, that's what I would do.