Where to from here?

[zimbos_05]

You are 100% scapegoating Chatara, your exact words "He cost us dearly"

In what way did he cost the team dearly?

As I pointed out, he was let down by Gumbie dropping McMullen and also when Gumbie failed to take a fairly simple collection off a throw to run Leask out.

I've been on-board with Chats dropping off performance wise, I even suggested that Evans should have played this game instead. I only have issues with the idea that Chatara was the main reason we lost and that Evans is this sensational bowler being held back by not getting opportunities.

I also don't know how Chatara isn't in the conversation as the second best seamer after Streak? He has the second most wickets and his numbers are either slightly better or worse than the likes of Brandes, Olonga, Hondo etc

My first point literally says, "we need a new batting coach". How am I only picking on Chatara then? Chatara did cost us in the field and with the ball but the batters also cost us with their abject shit show.

Yes Gumbie dropped McMullen, but that was a much harder catch that Chataras drop. I've not said he was the main reason, but you have to acknowledge that he was sub-par yesterday. His economy rate is well above anyone else and in a game where runs are hard to come by, you cannot afford to be giving away many runs. I've proven with figures just how much more expensive he was across the whole tournament and in last nights game. Not only did he a drop a catch yesterday, but he made at least two misfields which led to Scotland getting a run when it should have been a dot.

Like I said about second best bowler, that is my own personal opinion. I genuinely think Olonga, Johnson and Ervine were much better bowlers, but their figures don't stack up because their careers were cut way short.

This team has a serious issue with maintaining momentum. T20 World Cup, we beat Pakistan and then proceeded to bottle two winnable games against Netherlands and Bangladesh. We actually would've been top 2 if we won those lmao. And now this tournament too. :/

Be careful, when I said that after the T20 tournament, it was basically a case of "Thats too negative. We did better than expected and things are improving, we'll be fine"

[jaybro]

My first point literally says, "we need a new batting coach". How am I only picking on Chatara then? Chatara did cost us in the field and with the ball but the batters also cost us with their abject shit show.

Oh yes of course you Scapegoated Stuey too, easy target lol

But Chatara is the only player you mentioned

Yes Gumbie dropped McMullen, but that was a much harder catch that Chataras drop. I've not said he was the main reason, but you have to acknowledge that he was sub-par yesterday. His economy rate is well above anyone else and in a game where runs are hard to come by, you cannot afford to be giving away many runs. I've proven with figures just how much more expensive he was across the whole tournament and in last nights game. Not only did he a drop a catch yesterday, but he made at least two misfields which led to Scotland getting a run when it should have been a dot.

Gumbie dropped two catches IIRC and miss fielded a couple of run out chances too, Ngarava made a few miss fields as well, and I'm sure there were others too. I'm not trying to argue that Chatara wasn't perfect yesterday, but pretty much every other Zimbabwe player out there yesterday, maybe excluding Burl let the team down with their performance.

If Chatara is such a shit bowler, why did the captain keep bowling him? Why did the coach keep picking him? If he really was such a liability, and there are better players who should play before him or bowl in certain times instead of him. You will have the lay the blame on Ervine & Dave, cause they're the ones putting the ball in his hands.

Anyways I'm done with defending him, I shouldn't have to, his record speaks for itself.

[zimbos_05]

Oh yes of course you Scapegoated Stuey too, easy target lol

But Chatara is the only player you mentioned

Stuey is shit. It's not scapegoating, it's a fact. I've been critical of him for a long time. Like I said I called out Chatara in a joking manner directly to you because of how you went on yesterday about him. We could all see his liability yet you kept jokingly gaslighting the forum of him being a "legend". We messed up in 2018 and now again. As Zim fans, how much hurt can we endure.

I literally highlighted our batting in my post in the match thread. I've also been very critical of Wessly all series so I think I'm allowed to attack Chatara every once in a while.

Gumbie dropped two catches IIRC and miss fielded a couple of run out chances too, Ngarava made a few miss fields as well, and I'm sure there were others too. I'm not trying to argue that Chatara wasn't perfect yesterday, but pretty much every other Zimbabwe player out there yesterday, maybe excluding Burl let the team down with their performance.

If Chatara is such a shit bowler, why did the captain keep bowling him? Why did the coach keep picking him? If he really was such a liability, and there are better players who should play before him or bowl in certain times instead of him. You will have the lay the blame on Ervine & Dave, cause they're the ones putting the ball in his hands.

Anyways I'm done with defending him, I shouldn't have to, his record speaks for itself.

Agree, Ngarava misfielded too and I called it out at the time in the thread. Gumbie dropped one (which I said he should have taken) but overall that probably cost us 2 runs IIRC. Chatara on the other hand cost us about 17.

Once again, I have called Ervine and his captaincy decisions, not just in this series, but in previous ones too. Just because someone gets picked, does not mean they are the best. At some point, they do take blame for that, but you are trying to absolve Chatara of all blame here and placing his errors on everyone else but him.

He was our most costly bowler all tournament. Our most costly bowler yesterday, and in both cases by some country mile. He also bowled the most extras of our bowlers all tournament. He is a shit fielder and probably will get the same results batting with a broomstick than a bat.

Chatara is a product of the broken ZC system. Let's face it. He probably would not be anywhere in our top 3 bowlers if ZC didn't shit the bed for so many years and we actually had a development system.

[sam_ahm]

Guys it's over. There is no point in arguing. Fans and players alike we have to bear this pain and go through this depressing phase all over again.

I'm totally shattered, but Sports has thought me a lot of things in life, it is what it is.

[Kriterion_BD]

I ended up watching much (actually most) of this match, riveting as it was. I was following the match thread and other threads all day, despite being very busy all day helping my parents get ready to sell their house.

I have a lot of thoughts, but I don't know if its worth rehashing them all in detail, so I'll try to keep it short.

I don't think there is any one person/player you can blame. Its a team game, and a collective effort. Within that, there are certainly weak links, and proper accountability means some or all of those players need to get dropped, perhaps some of them permanently.

Even if this particular result doesn't lead to the retirements of the Big 3, that day is very nearly here and focus should be on succession planning with an eye on next year's T20 world cup and then of course the 2027 ODI event.

As a neutral, I saw glaring problems everywhere...even during the success of the campaign's first several games. These are long-standing, systemic issues that need to be addressed otherwise, this same tragedy will keep ocurring more often than not.

1) A lot was talked about batting form, but form is only as good as the runs that are scored in clutch situations in big games. Raza and Williams are the only guys who have consistently scored in tough situations and/or against quality bowling attacks.

2) There was considerable praise heaped on the fast bowlers, but the fact remains that Zimbabwe got very few wickets in the first powerplay, and gave up massive opening partnerships regularly. A lot of soft runs were given way, but that is perhaps the nature of the business.

3) Fielding was OK from what I could tell. I wouldn't sweat that much about it, but this is one area where any team/player can become great.

4) With the Big 3's retirement getting closer and closer, it is critical to focus on talent identification/development.

[TapsC2]

Oh yes of course you Scapegoated Stuey too, easy target lol

But Chatara is the only player you mentioned

Stuey is shit. It's not scapegoating, it's a fact. I've been critical of him for a long time. Like I said I called out Chatara in a joking manner directly to you because of how you went on yesterday about him. We could all see his liability yet you kept jokingly gaslighting the forum of him being a "legend". We messed up in 2018 and now again. As Zim fans, how much hurt can we endure.

I literally highlighted our batting in my post in the match thread. I've also been very critical of Wessly all series so I think I'm allowed to attack Chatara every once in a while.

Gumbie dropped two catches IIRC and miss fielded a couple of run out chances too, Ngarava made a few miss fields as well, and I'm sure there were others too. I'm not trying to argue that Chatara wasn't perfect yesterday, but pretty much every other Zimbabwe player out there yesterday, maybe excluding Burl let the team down with their performance.

If Chatara is such a shit bowler, why did the captain keep bowling him? Why did the coach keep picking him? If he really was such a liability, and there are better players who should play before him or bowl in certain times instead of him. You will have the lay the blame on Ervine & Dave, cause they're the ones putting the ball in his hands.

Anyways I'm done with defending him, I shouldn't have to, his record speaks for itself.

Agree, Ngarava misfielded too and I called it out at the time in the thread. Gumbie dropped one (which I said he should have taken) but overall that probably cost us 2 runs IIRC. Chatara on the other hand cost us about 17.

Once again, I have called Ervine and his captaincy decisions, not just in this series, but in previous ones too. Just because someone gets picked, does not mean they are the best. At some point, they do take blame for that, but you are trying to absolve Chatara of all blame here and placing his errors on everyone else but him.

He was our most costly bowler all tournament. Our most costly bowler yesterday, and in both cases by some country mile. He also bowled the most extras of our bowlers all tournament. He is a shit fielder and probably will get the same results batting with a broomstick than a bat.

Chatara is a product of the broken ZC system. Let's face it. He probably would not be anywhere in our top 3 bowlers if ZC didn't shit the bed for so many years and we actually had a development system.

If there is a senior player to call out for yesterday its the senior player who got in yesterday then played an IPL shot 81 meters down the ground when the other end is about 65 meters. We were 4 wickets down needing 4.5 an over.In such a situation that was an amateurish mistake in the game of his life.

He unfortunately was the face of the 2018 defeat after his speech then he goes and does that. That's like Messi skying his first penalty in the 2022 World Cup final after losing the 2014 final as the best player. The other 2 senior players got tough balls. Burl was in, all he had to do was knock it around.

[TapsC2]

It's the nature of sport though. They are humans. Mistakes are made. For me 2018 felt a lot worse than this. I don't know why but it did. Maybe because I can see DH has a vision.

Its time to start a new cycle. Not a scorched earth policy but they can't be a priority anymore. Rather we offer competitive salaries to the +44 brigade if a choice had to be made. The big 3 didn't start off banging hundreds too. It's going to be a tough process but it needs to start now. 4 years is not as long as people think.

[TapsC2]

It's also possible for this transition to be format specific. ODIs need a new approach. T20s there is a world cup next year and tests there are very few anyway

[jaybro]

Agree, Ngarava misfielded too and I called it out at the time in the thread. Gumbie dropped one (which I said he should have taken) but overall that probably cost us 2 runs IIRC. Chatara on the other hand cost us about 17.

You do not recall correctly, after Gumbie dropped McMullen off Chatara he went on to score at least 4 boundaries off Chatara after that. Plus Chatara at least bowled McBride out, so he made amends for his drop.

Once again, I have called Ervine and his captaincy decisions, not just in this series, but in previous ones too. Just because someone gets picked, does not mean they are the best. At some point, they do take blame for that, but you are trying to absolve Chatara of all blame here and placing his errors on everyone else but him.

I'm not absolving him of any blame, but everyone is hammering him saying he's crap etc, well blame the coach and the captain for playing him. If he's so shit and Evans is so good well maybe you need to question Dave for being so stupid he can't see what is according to you, clear to the rest of the world.

He was our most costly bowler all tournament. Our most costly bowler yesterday, and in both cases by some country mile. He also bowled the most extras of our bowlers all tournament. He is a shit fielder and probably will get the same results batting with a broomstick than a bat.

If the top order turned up he wouldn't have to bat, why don't you have a crack at them?

Chatara is a product of the broken ZC system. Let's face it. He probably would not be anywhere in our top 3 bowlers if ZC didn't shit the bed for so many years and we actually had a development system.

Based on what facts? His numbers stack up against any other Zim bowler so you're wrong again

[jaybro]

1) A lot was talked about batting form, but form is only as good as the runs that are scored in clutch situations in big games. Raza and Williams are the only guys who have consistently scored in tough situations and/or against quality bowling attacks.

Wrong, batting form is a players run of either good or bad scores which mostly indicates if he is good or bad form. Scoring runs in tough situations or big games should be classed as 'clutch performances'.

2) There was considerable praise heaped on the fast bowlers, but the fact remains that Zimbabwe got very few wickets in the first powerplay, and gave up massive opening partnerships regularly. A lot of soft runs were given way, but that is perhaps the nature of the business.

Agreed, they didn't take enough early wickets, in fact apart form the USA game I don't think they took any early wickets. All three main seamers are accountable for that as they all had chances with the new ball. Ngarava was able to take wickets later in the innings and was clearly the standout bowler for Zim.

3) Fielding was OK from what I could tell. I wouldn't sweat that much about it, but this is one area where any team/player can become great.

No it was pretty average, just looking at yesterdays game, both Chatara and Ngarava had some terrible miss fields, whilst Chatara had an awful drop catch, he didn't have a happy tournament in the field. Gumbie was the worst yesterday, dropping McMullen and had at least two missed run-outs from sloppy glove work.

4) With the Big 3's retirement getting closer and closer, it is critical to focus on talent identification/development.

Yes there needs to be an extra focus on developing new players, but that doesn't mean replacing the big 3 with 3 younger players that aren't ready. They either need to recruit the county players or figure out a way to fast track the likes of Myers, Marumani, Bennett etc. But just throwing them in the deep end won't end well.