[MATCH THREAD] 2nd Test Afghanistan v Zimbabwe @Abu Dhabi

[Zimco]

I think a season in UK/Australia in the off season (or even during the Logan cup) would help Wes develop. He is young after all, and the Aussies used to send their u19s to the UK after the u19 world cup to develop.

The aus system is better for developing test skills and leaving the ball but the UK system is better for overall batting development. I think Wes needs to learn how to leave, based on how he got out, so aus would be better for him.

The Indian academy's are Pretty good as well I think

[zimbos_05]

I'll give the example of Babar Azam as a guy who was persisted with and turned into a terrific Test batter. He was averaging around 25 in his first 10-12 matches, and a lot of fans wanted him dropped. But the team stuck with him, and now he's the face of their team. Sometimes belief, and giving a player a long run also work.

The next Test is still a few weeks away. Plenty of time to think about not playing at the ball outside off. Its not really a technique issue so much as a shot selection issue.

Babar has a FC average of 43. Najmuls is 42. Babar scored 69 and 21 on test debut and then was dropped for the next 2 tests. Najmul scored 19 and 15 which isn't much but he actually applied himself by facing over 160 balls.

Wes got three ducks facing a total of 5 balls, and has an FC average of 17.

It's not that i don't rate the guy, but your solution makes no sense.

You are also forgetting that these other teams have a bigger talent pool and stronger squads. If a player on debut has a bad game, it's not the worst because the others around can pick up his slack. Zim does not have that luxury. If Wes is in the middle at 4/5, he needs to deliver because otherwise it all falls on one or two guys shoulders all the time, and the tail is exposed.

If you are going to compare things, they need to be the same. Wes is talented and will get there, but throwing him in to the deep end and just hoping he swims is not the way to do it. If your shot selection is poor from ball one, then you have way more work to do in the practice nets and definitely should not be playing internationals. He needs to be developed much better before going back in to the middle order for tests.

Pakistan stuck with Babar because he showed his skill domestically. Wes has not had that. Babar could be worked on in the nets and on the side. Zim coaches have no clue, nor does ZC have any structure. Wes won't learn anything by being asked to do that he which he does not know.

Also, having reviewed his wickets, he clearly does not have the white ball mindset. You can see that those are basic test shot mistakes which you should be learning about in high school or domestically, not on the international stage.

[TapsC2]

The crazy thing is that Shumba is better in the longer format but they keep throwing him into the T20 team. Ngarava too. If you watched Ngarava bowl yesterday you can clearly see he can be a danger if he settles on a line and length. His first ball was brilliant. Shumba has a lot more patience to his game.

It’s more of a tactical issue for me for Wes than a talent issue. The main issue I think is his batting position. Let him open because that’s what he is used to. He doesn’t have the experience for those other positions yet. Raza should also at least come in at number 3. The key for T20s is an explosive start. Williams and Tari won’t give us that. That’s not their natural game.

[Kriterion_BD]

Zim coaches have no clue, nor does ZC have any structure. Wes won't learn anything by being asked to do that he which he does not know.

If this is the case, then Wes won't develop his game much away from the national team. Who's going to help him?

I know that Pakistan and Bangladesh or even Sri Lanka aren't perfect examples for Zimbabwe, but Wes would be surrounded by a pretty strong batting lineup with Taylor, Williams, Ervine, Raza, and even Chakabva around to help absorb pressure. Thats 5 guys ahead of him in the shouldering responsibility list. He probably shouldn't bat in the top 6, and if his bowling can be utilized more he can bat at 7 or 8 as a batting all-rounder.

[zimbos_05]

If this is the case, then Wes won't develop his game much away from the national team. Who's going to help him?

I know that Pakistan and Bangladesh or even Sri Lanka aren't perfect examples for Zimbabwe, but Wes would be surrounded by a pretty strong batting lineup with Taylor, Williams, Ervine, Raza, and even Chakabva around to help absorb pressure. Thats 5 guys ahead of him in the shouldering responsibility list. He probably shouldn't bat in the top 6, and if his bowling can be utilized more he can bat at 7 or 8 as a batting all-rounder.

Are you reading what I am saying? I have said to keep him around the team, just not play him for in tests for now.

[Kriterion_BD]

Are you reading what I am saying? I have said to keep him around the team, just not play him for in tests for now.

Idk, I feel that may also knock his confidence. Ultimately, though the kind of cricketer he is will determine his success/failure even despite a poor cricketing setup. Obviously a lower volume of cricket will automatically place a lower cap on his progress.

[Jemisi]

You can persist with him Kriterion but not for that long. What if he gets three more ducks in a row? If a guy never scores it will poison the whole team. Mark Waugh managed 4 ducks in a row and they kept him but he probs wouldn't have lasted 8.

[zimbos_05]

Idk, I feel that may also knock his confidence. Ultimately, though the kind of cricketer he is will determine his success/failure even despite a poor cricketing setup. Obviously a lower volume of cricket will automatically place a lower cap on his progress.

If we had absolutely no other option, I would say fair enough. Keep picking him. However, we do have options, so you either keep picking him and throwing him in the deep end, or you take a step back and work on developing and nurturing his talent as required.

Remember, Pakistan bowlers are on a different level to Afghanistan. They will be much harder to face.

[TapsC2]

Idk, I feel that may also knock his confidence. Ultimately, though the kind of cricketer he is will determine his success/failure even despite a poor cricketing setup. Obviously a lower volume of cricket will automatically place a lower cap on his progress.

If we had absolutely no other option, I would say fair enough. Keep picking him. However, we do have options, so you either keep picking him and throwing him in the deep end, or you take a step back and work on developing and nurturing his talent as required.

Remember, Pakistan bowlers are on a different level to Afghanistan. They will be much harder to face.

He already faced the Pakistan bowling attack and did well. In the end his character will show. If BT and Ervine were around he wouldn’t have played anyway. It was more of an emergency measure.

I agree that he should just be around the time even if he doesn’t play. If I remember correctly a young Kagiso Rabada came to Zim in 2014 when SA played that test match but he wasn’t playing. Just watching and soaking it in. He made his debut a few months later. That’s a form of experience on its own

[zimbos_05]

He already faced the Pakistan bowling attack and did well. In the end his character will show. If BT and Ervine were around he wouldn’t have played anyway. It was more of an emergency measure.

I agree that he should just be around the time even if he doesn’t play. If I remember correctly a young Kagiso Rabada came to Zim in 2014 when SA played that test match but he wasn’t playing. Just watching and soaking it in. He made his debut a few months later. That’s a form of experience on its own

I did think about that. I know he has played against Pak before. In saying that, facing an attack for around 5-20 overs is different than facing that attack for more than 50 overs and over the period of days. White ball moves differently to red ball.

We agree on the second part though.