Losers vs Afghanistan | 3rd LOI | 21 December 2024

[Andybligzz]

And also to say he would struggle to make the A team of any top ten nation is such a weird thing to say, at the moment being 39 no chance he would. Rewind 5 years he’s walking into most teams besides the big 3. Ervine was a very very good batsman and sadly it’s passed him, but if you look at his record compared to most teams top 5 his numbers stack up.

[Kriterion_BD]

Anyone who averages over 30 after as many games as he has played is in fact good, so many cricketers have failed at the top level and would dream of his record.he’s not a great odi bat for sure but to say he’s no good is just absolutely incorrect. He doesn’t get to play zimbabwe either the man deserves a lot more respect.

He's better than practically everyone not named Taylor, Williams, or Raza. But idk how his record stacks up against top sides.

[Andybligzz]

My point wasn’t comparing him
To the top teams ( big 3 aus England India ) and perhaps South Africa but more against the middle teams ( New Zealand, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, and the lower teams ( West Indies, Ireland Bangladesh, Afghanistan ect ) if you look at the middle order of all these teams you will see ervines record is on par, if not better than most. His record isn’t far off smiths odi record for Aus if you compare games and 50 plus scores, strike rate ect. Ervine was class, not anymore but to say he’s “ never been a good odi player” is simply incorrect.

[eugene]

Ben Curran should be given a bit of a run. Given he was our third highest run scorer in the series and was opening there are a few others who should be given the chop first. Is Craig Ervine just out of form we think or too old? Seems like a good while since he has had an innings of note.

Ervine has never been a good ODI batter. By Zimbabwe standards he is great, probably 4th best since 2004 behind Taylor Williams and Raza…but he’d struggle to make the A team of any top 10 side.

It is hard to know how Ervine would do in other teams. The good ZImbabwean batsmen so often have wickets falling around them which makes life a lot tougher - imagine if he were coming in at 100-2 after 20 overs instead of 5-2 after 6 overs.

[zimbos_05]

The batting is an absolute joke. It's not even a thing about the field or playing against a prime bowling attack. It's simply just the batters being shit.

Makes you wonder what they are working on in the nets and in training. This is why even teams like Afghanistan look down on us now. They don't see any value in playing us or having a challenge. We are seen as cannon fodder for them. A side to get their stats up.

How can a side play so many matches in such a short time and keep making the same mistakes over and over again. Truly shambolic.

[Kriterion_BD]

It is hard to know how Ervine would do in other teams. The good ZImbabwean batsmen so often have wickets falling around them which makes life a lot tougher - imagine if he were coming in at 100-2 after 20 overs instead of 5-2 after 6 overs.

Thats a pretty good point for an analytical project. I'll see what I can dig up on cricinfo statsguru.

My point wasn’t comparing him
To the top teams ( big 3 aus England India ) and perhaps South Africa but more against the middle teams ( New Zealand, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, and the lower teams ( West Indies, Ireland Bangladesh, Afghanistan ect ) if you look at the middle order of all these teams you will see ervines record is on par, if not better than most. His record isn’t far off smiths odi record for Aus if you compare games and 50 plus scores, strike rate ect. Ervine was class, not anymore but to say he’s “ never been a good odi player” is simply incorrect.

Lets say Ervine's prime years was between 2012-2020 (from age 27-35). Its a good period because it also corresponds to the prime of the current Big 4 (Kohli, Smith, Williamson, Root) as well.

Here's the ODI stats vs the top 9 teams at that time (Afghanistan left out of since they were minnows until 2023).

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engin ... pe=batting

AB de Villiers and Kohli lead the pack, no surprise. Both average about 65. The guys who average 50+ are also an elite bunch. Here's a partial list:

1) De Villiers - 66
2) Kohli - 65

3) R Taylor - 57
4) Rohit - 56
5) Sangakkara - 54
6) Babar - 53
7) Root - 52
8) Dhoni - 50

9) Faf - 49
10) Williamson - 48
11) Mushfiqur - 48
12) Mathews - 47
13) Amla - 46
14) Warner - 46
15) Shakib - 46
16) Hope - 46
17) QDK - 45
18) Smith - 45
19) Stokes - 43

For the Zimbabwe guys its a good period because all of Taylor, Williams, and Raza were also in their primes being the same age as Ervine:

Taylor - 35
Williams - 33
Raza - 32
Chibabha - 32
Chigumbura - 30
Ervine - 28
H Masakadza - 28

If you notice here, Ervine and Masakadza have nearly identical records against the top teams in ODIs, and this was in Ervine's prime years. Ervine also does NOT average anywhere near Steve Smith, about half of Smith's average or slightly more than half.

The surprise was Chigumbura and Chibabha's stats, and both played a fairly large number of innnings as well so the its not like one good score is propping their averages up.

Now if we were to compare these numbers vs the current guys averages, mostly playing against Nepal, Netherlands, Scotland, with occaisional games vs Ireland or Afghanistan, it sheds light on how far Zimbabwe have fallen behind, even from their own standards from a decade ago.

[Googly]

Our bowlers at international level don't look too bad, and they occasionally win us a game here and there, but its our overall domestic bowling that somehow dictates our standard of international batting. Having said that these last two series have shown that they are not as good, but they do bowl wicket taking deliveries and the batters do get themselves out.

We've had some decent overseas batters play domestic here over the years and they make some decent scores but as a rule they don't knock it out the park. It's strange. In fact most say that there's 4 or 5 pretty good players in each team and then it tails off. They all say the fielding is excellent.

My point being if you put these household names into our system it would drag them down a couple of notches.
If you put our best batters in their systems they'd go up a couple of notches. There's not this huge disparity in ability that there appears to be.

ZC have relied on a handful of guys and have totally ignored the others because they don't want to spend the money. They've assumed the 5 generational gem talents (Wes, Dion, Maru, clive and Musi) will smoothly transition and it hasn't gone to plan. They're reaping what they've sowed.
The best example is Dion, who I believe has a high ceiling, but he's played minimal cricket over the years he's been at Uni and he's been fast tracked with much anticipation. Then you've got guys here who hit thousands of balls a week, have played plenty of games, have an equally high ceiling and they have to wait to see how these guys will do after 100 internationals. And it seems as if they only need a couple of Zimbabwean 50's to remain in the side. A real 50 gets you a central contract.
They'll give Bhawa the same opportunity as well. To keep stubbornly making the same mistakes hoping for a different outcome and all they need is one decent outing, which by the law of averages will eventually happen, for the usual suspects to jump on their soap box and start shouting anti-Rhodesian slogans is just weird.

I wonder how many of these guys really believe they can play at international level and win. It often looks like they're just shooting for that Zimbabwean 50 to remain in the side.

Let's hope for some Zimbabwean 50's against Ireland.

[Kriterion_BD]

The seam bowlers are OK. Muzurabani can cause problems on his day with his height. Ngarava though seems to have more of a knack of picking wickets. Maybe cuz he's a lefty and/or swings the ball more than Blessing. Nyauchi can ask some questions in swinging conditions. Haven't seen Newman, but appears as though he's at least as good as Nyauchi. The rest of the seamers are probably not much to write home about. Brad Evans probably is a useful part timer if he can get his batting on track.

The spinners are the main weak point. Raza and Williams are the best spinners and by some distance. Burl is too inconsistent, and Wellington may be accurate, but he's easy to play for top sides.

[sam_ahm]

The batting is an absolute joke. It's not even a thing about the field or playing against a prime bowling attack. It's simply just the batters being shit.

Makes you wonder what they are working on in the nets and in training. This is why even teams like Afghanistan look down on us now. They don't see any value in playing us or having a challenge. We are seen as cannon fodder for them. A side to get their stats up.

How can a side play so many matches in such a short time and keep making the same mistakes over and over again. Truly shambolic.

Agree 100%