West Indies tour rumours

[pariah]

Zimbabwe first of all needs four specialist bowlers to do well in test. Raza,Williams and Waller are part time bowlers, can't trouble quality batsman.

No arguments there. Except pretty much everyone says this but still goes back on their word. You know why? Because none of "them" want to open but everyone wants "everyone" in anyway meaning 4 specialist bowlers strategy is canned. So if Hami opens with another lab rat, and Regis keeps at 7, it's very hard to fit seven of Musakanda, Burl, Sean, Malcolm, Craig, Moor, Raza into 4 spots (3,4,5,6) - especially when Sean can't buy a run to save his life at the moment.

I can; tse them dropping Musakanda after just one Test, and they will probably bring in a Mawoyo/Chamu to open, so in a nutshell, Zim will probably have a huge squad to accomodate a long list of "batsmen" if we can call them that on recent form.

Nathan opening ahead of Craig?

N Waller
H Masakadza
C Ervine
S Raza
S Williams
P Moor
M Waller
G Cremer
T Chisoro
C Mumba
T Chatara

It will probably be: Chamu, Hami, Musakanda, Craig, Sean, Raza, Regis(wk), Cremer, Tiripano, Mpofu, Mumba!

Instead, I think I would go: Raza, Craig, Hami, Vusi, Musakanda, Regis(wk), Cremer, Panyangara, Shingi, Chatara, Wellington. By Zimbabwean standards, Cremer is probably a number 7 now, and he's going to need his batting to keep him in the side a the rate he dishes up boundaries with his bowling.

[TapsC]

What I will agree with is that one of the senior middle order batsmen has to open to add balance to the team. Its the only way. For me it has to be Raza

[Black Mamba]

Zimbabwe first of all needs four specialist bowlers to do well in test. Raza,Williams and Waller are part time bowlers, can't trouble quality batsman.

No arguments there. Except pretty much everyone says this but still goes back on their word. You know why? Because none of "them" want to open but everyone wants "everyone" in anyway meaning 4 specialist bowlers strategy is canned. So if Hami opens with another lab rat, and Regis keeps at 7, it's very hard to fit seven of Musakanda, Burl, Sean, Malcolm, Craig, Moor, Raza into 4 spots (3,4,5,6) - especially when Sean can't buy a run to save his life at the moment.

I can; tse them dropping Musakanda after just one Test, and they will probably bring in a Mawoyo/Chamu to open, so in a nutshell, Zim will probably have a huge squad to accomodate a long list of "batsmen" if we can call them that on recent form.

Nathan opening ahead of Craig?

N Waller
H Masakadza
C Ervine
S Raza
S Williams
P Moor
M Waller
G Cremer
T Chisoro
C Mumba
T Chatara

It will probably be: Chamu, Hami, Musakanda, Craig, Sean, Raza, Regis(wk), Cremer, Tiripano, Mpofu, Mumba!

Instead, I think I would go: Raza, Craig, Hami, Vusi, Musakanda, Regis(wk), Cremer, Panyangara, Shingi, Chatara, Wellington. By Zimbabwean standards, Cremer is probably a number 7 now, and he's going to need his batting to keep him in the side a the rate he dishes up boundaries with his bowling.

If Panyangara, Shingi, Wellington gets selected

Windies will bat probably only in first innings on both the tests

[pariah]

What I will agree with is that one of the senior middle order batsmen has to open to add balance to the team. Its the only way. For me it has to be Raza

Except Raza shouldn't be the "one of". His record opening is superb, and logically he should have never moved from there.

I watched that Stanbic Zim T20 live on Supersport throughout when it was created. That's when Raza introduced himself and he was opening. Even making a name for himself as he outbatted grandpa Brian Lara. Prior to that and since, he continued to open. If you check through this forum I first made the comment about players shifting from opening the batting in order to avoid low scores, and Raza was one of the players I mentioned. That was cowardly, but a lso a way for him to gain a spot in the national side.

In that same tournament, Chamu Chibhabha was the standout player with bat and ball. i think he was the MVP. Anyway, my point about Chamu even years ago prior to that is he never was an opener, but by and large has batted high for the national team. It was very interesting to read Tristan rate his bowling, because Chamu is a very good bowler. He's proven it a number of times when he bowls for Zim, even recently.

So this business of continuing to shove players up the order when they can contribute better if relieved from opening duties is hurting Zimbabwe cricket. In my opinion, Hami and Chamu add much more value with the ball than Raza, Williams and Malcolm. But like Dean Elgar for the Proteas, it's hard to get him to bowl since he opens, but his spin is way better than Raza, Williams and Malcolm.

Using guys like Hami and Chamu more, actually means Zim can afford to drop a seamer, and pick a proper spinner e.g. Wellingotn in Tests and Chisoro in LOIs.

So Raza should be and must be an opener. It's a question of which other middle order batsman must join him.

As it is, in ODIs Craig comes in after Mire, Hami and Musakanda. What's the point of having a non-bowling non-keeping, non-captaining Craig bat at number four in an ODI??? this is precisely why the Proteas often drop David Miller. Craig should have long opened, or insisted on batting 3.

[Kriterion_BD]

Instead, I think I would go: Raza, Craig, Hami, Vusi, Musakanda, Regis(wk), Cremer, Panyangara, Shingi, Chatara, Wellington. By Zimbabwean standards, Cremer is probably a number 7 now, and he's going to need his batting to keep him in the side a the rate he dishes up boundaries with his bowling.

You do know that in cricket your best batsman bats at 3 and/or 4, right? Tendulkar, Dravid, Kohli, Pujara, Kallis, Lara, Ponting, Smith, Williamson, Root, etc?

Craig is hands down Zimbabwe's best batsman, and Vusi one of the very worst. On recent form, Raza is also one of the best. Therefore those guys ought to be put in the most important batting positions, which cricket authorities state is 3 and 4. Opening isn't the most important part of the order.

[pariah]

You do know that in cricket your best batsman bats at 3 and/or 4, right? Tendulkar, Dravid, Kohli, Pujara, Kallis, Lara, Ponting, Smith, Williamson, Root, etc?

Craig is hands down Zimbabwe's best batsman, and Vusi one of the very worst. On recent form, Raza is also one of the best. Therefore those guys ought to be put in the most important batting positions, which cricket authorities state is 3 and 4. Opening isn't the most important part of the order.

So is Musakanda Zimbabwe's best batsman - just like Root, Kohli, Williamson and Steve Smith?

I take it AB de Villiers has been batting four right? And did so when Kallis retired? Where do Tamim and Sakib bat for Bangladesh? Where has Mushfiqur been batting all these years? So Lara, Kallis and Dravid never opened in Tests?

By the way I couldn't be bothered about which non-Hami senior does eventually bat in the top 3 as long as they do.

Raza hit a century against a poor Sri Lankan side. One innings in a long time. Apart from that it's very hard to say he's on form Test-wise. And if you want to use LOI form, then throw Mire in. One would argue Sean Williams is more in form Test wise than Raza.

Perhaps one day you'll get my point the day Zimbabwe drop Hami, and a Moor-Burl opening combination fails. I'm just suggesting the inevitable. By the way, even Alistari Campbell said Craig must bat higher, but Bucther disagreed.

[jaybro]

[\quote] Instead, I think I would go: Raza, Craig, Hami, Vusi, Musakanda, Regis(wk), Cremer, Panyangara, Shingi, Chatara, Wellington. By Zimbabwean standards, Cremer is probably a number 7 now, and he's going to need his batting to keep him in the side a the rate he dishes up boundaries with his bowling.
[/quote]


So Hhm wants to move the two batsman who scored hundreds in our last test from the middle order to open.

Wants to bring in Vusi who hasn't scored a run in years but in the same argument drops Williams who apprently 'can't buy a run to save himself'. Williams has scored well in our last 5 tests compared to Hami who hasn't even passed 50 since 2014.

Drops PJ Moor who's averaging mid 30's

Plays 5 bowlers with Tinashe @8

Brings in Wellington when he can't even get a start for goats who preferred M'shangwe and at times even Kamungozi.

I could be mistaken to think you have shit for brains but not me I just know you're biased

[Kriterion_BD]

So is Musakanda Zimbabwe's best batsman - just like Root, Kohli, Williamson and Steve Smith?

I don't know why you think I implied that. Musakanda has only played a single Test and didn't score on what was a pretty flat deck against a terrible bowling attack. No way he would rank ahead of Craig or Raza on the basis of that evidence - which is all the evidence we have.

Young Tari is however talented and therefore deserves a shot somewhere in the middle order. His natural position preferably, but if Craig and Raza are to bat at 3/4/5 then Tary would have to slot in the vacant position or move down to 6 or 7. He could bat at 3 or 4 if he was precociously gifted which he doesn't seem to be.

I take it AB de Villiers has been batting four right? And did so when Kallis retired? Where do Tamim and Sakib bat for Bangladesh? Where has Mushfiqur been batting all these years? So Lara, Kallis and Dravid never opened in Tests?

ABD isn't obviously SA's best batsman in the same way Taylor was for ZIM, and Craig and Raza (on current form) are now. Neither are Tamim, Shakib, or Mushy.

SA still has Amla, QDK (if he gives up the gloves), Faf who can all do an adequate job at 3-4. They don't need an ABD to bat there.

Now as for BD. Tamim is a natural opener and is no better a batsman than Shakib, Mushfiq, or Mominul. Mushfiq is a WK and when he isn't he does in fact bat at #4, but since he's gone back to WK, he's batting at 6 again. Shakib is an all-rounder, not a specialist batsman. Apart from that he doesn't have the technique or the temperament to bat at 3-4. He is an ideal #6-7, but bats at 5-6 for BD.

We put Imrul at #3 and Sabbir at #4, neither of which belongs there and slipped to 10-3 against Australia on a raging turner. That is precisely why you have to play your best batsmen who are also naturally inclined to play at 3/4 at 3 and 4.

By the way I couldn't be bothered about which non-Hami senior does eventually bat in the top 3 as long as they do.

Raza hit a century against a poor Sri Lankan side. One innings in a long time. Apart from that it's very hard to say he's on form Test-wise. And if you want to use LOI form, then throw Mire in. One would argue Sean Williams is more in form Test wise than Raza.[.quote]

I will agree that I don't know if Raza is a permanent force. It was just one good innings against a terrible attack. But it was still the 2nd best performance in the side. Mire is hack in my opinion; he wouldn't last in Test cricket. Heck, he may not even last in LOI cricket against decent bowling units.

And no one would argue that Willy is in better Test form that Raza. Raza hit a hundred more recently.

Perhaps one day you'll get my point the day Zimbabwe drop Hami, and a Moor-Burl opening combination fails. I'm just suggesting the inevitable. By the way, even Alistari Campbell said Craig must bat higher, but Bucther disagreed.

"Higher" doesn't mean opening, unless that guy is already batting at #3.

[jaybro]

I love how Hhm talks about how Williams, Raza, Moor etc are out of form in tests but never mentions that Hami hasn't passed 50 since 2014

[CrimsonAvenger]

This article suggests Gayle could play Zim tests "next month" purely on speculation of an unrelated interview, although there is no indication of whether there is any such tour at all: http://www.herald.co.zw/gayle-could-play-in-zim-test/