SHIT! Zimbabwe lost to Singapore
Re: SHIT! Zimbabwe lost to Singapore
He’s confusing cricket with baseball. Absolutely clueless.
Re: SHIT! Zimbabwe lost to Singapore
Fans have influence, so does ZCF. They make it "easy" for the selectors.
I'm logical. Where did I bring in Sauramba over an available Murray?
Voice of reason.
Re: SHIT! Zimbabwe lost to Singapore
ZC don't care what fans think. Mukhu and his band do their own thing. You should know this first hand. If ZC are being influenced by a forum, then they are clearly not fit to run the organisation. All this talk of selections and not once have you blamed any of the selectors or admin. Never!
This was you from the Tari in T20 thread...Unless I can't read, that looks like Sauramba ahead of Murray.
Either way, Sauramba has an average of 10 in T20s. Its not deserving of a call up. His strike rate suggests he is better, but at 27, he is playing catch up with a lot of other guys and makes him much lower down the pecking order. Considering he has had 15 innings and only managed an average of 10, tells me he can't score regularly or consistently enough.
Re: SHIT! Zimbabwe lost to Singapore
I was having a particularly obstinate bowel movement and someone had moved my magazine rack just out of range so I finally found the time to read your posts 
if only your posts had been hand written...
Now you’re blaming ZC for a whole host of crap decisions and Hasnain for unilaterally voting against the BCCI on our behalf? In your esteemed view are they good administrators or aren’t they?
if only your posts had been hand written... Now you’re blaming ZC for a whole host of crap decisions and Hasnain for unilaterally voting against the BCCI on our behalf? In your esteemed view are they good administrators or aren’t they?
Re: SHIT! Zimbabwe lost to Singapore
And you’re now saying that failures in T20 may ultimately be the cause of our demise and that basically the guys you don’t like can’t play this format and you’ve put forward a list of names that can. Its hard to fathom how you write some good stuff and then nonsense in the same paragraph, it’s like several people are living inside your head, all fighting for the keyboard.
Re: SHIT! Zimbabwe lost to Singapore
Zim will continue to regress with gathering momentum because we don’t have the players or the structures. We have about a hundred reasonable senior players, we know all of them. It don’t matter how many opportunities you give guys they’re not going to be as consistent as Williams in any format. He’s a seriously good player with tons of talent and experience. 10 tests, 140 ODI’s and 40 T20’s. Explain to me how many years of cricket Zimbabwe will have to play before any new player can accumulate that amount of international games? We’re talking a decade and we don’t have a decade, it’s that simple.
International cricket is a tough school.
You wouldn’t believe that no matter who told you though. The guys you’re hanging your hat on are either mid to late twenties and don’t have great stats or are young and are not world beaters. They’re going to struggle all day. We can all just wait and watch and see because a couple of guys will get a chance. There’s only one outcome when Starc, Cummins, Bumhra etc etc are running in at Chari, Kasuza, Kamunhukamwe, Zhuwao, Manyonga, Sauramba, Roche etc etc. Unfortunately we will have to sit tight because we play so few games. Eddie B has been gone 5 years and has probably played anywhere between 300-400 games of quality cricket and he’s only 21. Let that sink in for a minute.
Everyone has Manyonga Mania because he finally got a game and played well, good for him, but he will face the same struggles as most of the others in the long term. I’m not saying he’s bad, he isn’t, but you have to be exceptional to do consistently well at International level. Cephas is another example, good player and absolutely smashes it in our lowly FC, but struggles at the higher levels, and this is before we play the top teams. So we have a guy that is better than others domestically, but can’t make the step up. Do we keep giving him a go or do we pick someone else who is not as good and hope he’s better on the international stage? How long do you want to do that before you think it might not work? Solly is another. Their replacements have even less chance and the guys you’re mentioning are simply not good enough to pull us out the shit. I sincerely hope they get a chance and I hope I’m wrong. We all want nothing more than to be able to play some better teams and put up a fight.
Talking about Vusi and co being better than Williams is irrelevant. You’re hoping it’s click bait and it’s not. I enjoyed Vusi in particular, awesome when on song, but they’re in the past, you’re trying to make this a black white issue and you’re the only one riding that horse as far as the players are concerned. Matsikinyeri and Sibanda were absolutely capable of playing the higher levels! They didn’t cover themselves in glory, but no one really has, but certainly had huge ability, part of the small handful that we’ve produced that could play international cricket without failing dismally.
Do you honestly think that if our 5 white and one Pakistani guy (as he’s now referred to) were shit they’d be getting picked? C’mon!! ZC dont have to be that disingenuous here to keep the whites’ interest, that bird has long since flown. You’re like that disgusting racist on Twitter that is shouting “The pink Rhodesians are coming!” Those guys have left or are dead from old age and cricket is but a distant memory for all of them. That last ditch attempt by the interim board and SRC was just that- a last ditch attempt, and it’s gone for good. The outcome is inevitable, it’s just the time frame now. It was probably too far gone for them to do anything, but it was worth a shot. That was not a white attempt to take over cricket, it was an attempt to save our cricket from certain oblivion. There aren’t enough whites to take over the cricket and I can guarantee that was not their intention. Nobody but nobody has faith in the administration here except a small handful of their employees and rabid psychophants who think that if they wage the 4th Chimurenga they might get a coke and a bun. The spin of legacy debt and these guys having the action plan to carry the day is just a fabrication and they’re hoping people are stupid enough to swallow it, and sadly they’re correct.
There’s 6 whites that play senior cricket and about 60 white schoolboys, of whom about 6 are any good (that’s from age 13-18). If there was only one white left it would still cause mild hysteria and a racial divide. This ridiculousness has to stop.
There is no upside for whites playing for Zim, the shit that it causes is not really worth it is it? We now know the number that constitutes an MDC illegal gathering- it’s 7. If there were 7 white guys and we won some top games (hypothetically) we’d be back to the 90’s with people shouting about elitism all over again. It’s just a bizarre situation and mentality. The only thing it would do is galvanize everybody into action again to break the stranglehold. Even if they were all replaced and we suddenly had a full schedule and had to pick from the remainder and got lambasted you’d have some nonsense race based excuse. It would be- they took up space for too long and denied others a glittering career! We’ve been down this road before. Those white guys are only tolerated by ZC, who’d want nothing more than some better guys to replace them, but I don’t see it happening. As mediocre as some of their performances have been they’re better than the guys they’re keeping out. Even our current selectors think so, or trust me, they would never be picked. This last tour was a perfect opportunity to play without them and we’d have been well beaten. Fact.
ZC are never going to get an A tour together, but ZC could pick an A side of guys that you feel have been hard done by and they could tour Harare Sports club and play our national side in a 3 match series and see how they go. Cheap, easy to arrange and we’d soon see. There were a couple of A games against the AC academy (not sure who played though) and they got beat once, make of that what you will, but that should never happen. There is no international A side on the planet that would be beaten by an academy side except here. We’ve isolated ourselves with the lack of international cricket, foreign players and tours and in no one knows what a really good player looks like anymore. We see one local guy making runs domestically and everyone gets excited and 9/10 times they’re actually bang average compared to what’s out there. Sit down with a real expert and find a clip of one of Byrom’s sublimely constructed tons, or a bit of Muyeye magic and get him to tell you what you’re really looking at and what we’re missing out on. They’re staggeringly good, we’ve got nothing like them here, not even close, I’m talking amongst the younger guys. When you have people in admin that can’t see that then I have no faith.
Let’s put this all in perspective. We have ICC full membership with about 100 half decent senior players, a few clubs that occasionally play cricket, about 6 schools and about 20 ok schoolboys and we’re expected to beat Scotland with 150 000 registered cricketers. That’s just Scotland, a country we have the audacity to sneer at!!
Less sneering and a big reality check is in order. We are so used to just surviving here that we take any crap dished out with glum and dumb resignation. Everyone spins it and says “Zimbos make a plan,” but the reality is that we’re just spineless and useless and as long as we’re doing marginally better than the guy on our right we’re happy.
The only two big government schools that really play cricket where ZC have pulled most of their black players from for many years has been Prince Edward and Churchill. Cricket has now all but collapsed there. Please don’t let anyone convince you otherwise. I don’t think they can make up B teams and they’re absolutely hopeless in every age group. Do not be taken in by any grass roots nonsense. If they can’t keep it going at Prince Edward with all their facilities and Old Boys’ support then they’re not doing it in Gokwe or Muzarabani or Bindura, take pure poison on that!!! The spin is that they’ve now spread cricket throughout and other schools are now producing players, it’s a big fat lie.
ZC are now disingenuously waxing lyrical about women’s cricket here. When there was virtually nothing before and then they organize a few games it looks like they’re doing something monumental and they’re not! They are trying to tick the box for political expediency and it’s a complete smokescreen because the rest of our cricket is an absolute diabolical shambles.
You keep whining about poor selections but have nothing bad to say about the selectors. You complain about the results but have nothing bad to say about the current coaches, you complain indirectly about poor administrative decisions made by people to whom this is supposedly a part time hobby and have political careers and yet you support this board that has led us into this cul de sac. All you delight from is trolling the guys who are going to rightfully react to your barely disguised racism and manipulation of stats to suit a very poor agenda.
International cricket is a tough school.
You wouldn’t believe that no matter who told you though. The guys you’re hanging your hat on are either mid to late twenties and don’t have great stats or are young and are not world beaters. They’re going to struggle all day. We can all just wait and watch and see because a couple of guys will get a chance. There’s only one outcome when Starc, Cummins, Bumhra etc etc are running in at Chari, Kasuza, Kamunhukamwe, Zhuwao, Manyonga, Sauramba, Roche etc etc. Unfortunately we will have to sit tight because we play so few games. Eddie B has been gone 5 years and has probably played anywhere between 300-400 games of quality cricket and he’s only 21. Let that sink in for a minute.
Everyone has Manyonga Mania because he finally got a game and played well, good for him, but he will face the same struggles as most of the others in the long term. I’m not saying he’s bad, he isn’t, but you have to be exceptional to do consistently well at International level. Cephas is another example, good player and absolutely smashes it in our lowly FC, but struggles at the higher levels, and this is before we play the top teams. So we have a guy that is better than others domestically, but can’t make the step up. Do we keep giving him a go or do we pick someone else who is not as good and hope he’s better on the international stage? How long do you want to do that before you think it might not work? Solly is another. Their replacements have even less chance and the guys you’re mentioning are simply not good enough to pull us out the shit. I sincerely hope they get a chance and I hope I’m wrong. We all want nothing more than to be able to play some better teams and put up a fight.
Talking about Vusi and co being better than Williams is irrelevant. You’re hoping it’s click bait and it’s not. I enjoyed Vusi in particular, awesome when on song, but they’re in the past, you’re trying to make this a black white issue and you’re the only one riding that horse as far as the players are concerned. Matsikinyeri and Sibanda were absolutely capable of playing the higher levels! They didn’t cover themselves in glory, but no one really has, but certainly had huge ability, part of the small handful that we’ve produced that could play international cricket without failing dismally.
Do you honestly think that if our 5 white and one Pakistani guy (as he’s now referred to) were shit they’d be getting picked? C’mon!! ZC dont have to be that disingenuous here to keep the whites’ interest, that bird has long since flown. You’re like that disgusting racist on Twitter that is shouting “The pink Rhodesians are coming!” Those guys have left or are dead from old age and cricket is but a distant memory for all of them. That last ditch attempt by the interim board and SRC was just that- a last ditch attempt, and it’s gone for good. The outcome is inevitable, it’s just the time frame now. It was probably too far gone for them to do anything, but it was worth a shot. That was not a white attempt to take over cricket, it was an attempt to save our cricket from certain oblivion. There aren’t enough whites to take over the cricket and I can guarantee that was not their intention. Nobody but nobody has faith in the administration here except a small handful of their employees and rabid psychophants who think that if they wage the 4th Chimurenga they might get a coke and a bun. The spin of legacy debt and these guys having the action plan to carry the day is just a fabrication and they’re hoping people are stupid enough to swallow it, and sadly they’re correct.
There’s 6 whites that play senior cricket and about 60 white schoolboys, of whom about 6 are any good (that’s from age 13-18). If there was only one white left it would still cause mild hysteria and a racial divide. This ridiculousness has to stop.
There is no upside for whites playing for Zim, the shit that it causes is not really worth it is it? We now know the number that constitutes an MDC illegal gathering- it’s 7. If there were 7 white guys and we won some top games (hypothetically) we’d be back to the 90’s with people shouting about elitism all over again. It’s just a bizarre situation and mentality. The only thing it would do is galvanize everybody into action again to break the stranglehold. Even if they were all replaced and we suddenly had a full schedule and had to pick from the remainder and got lambasted you’d have some nonsense race based excuse. It would be- they took up space for too long and denied others a glittering career! We’ve been down this road before. Those white guys are only tolerated by ZC, who’d want nothing more than some better guys to replace them, but I don’t see it happening. As mediocre as some of their performances have been they’re better than the guys they’re keeping out. Even our current selectors think so, or trust me, they would never be picked. This last tour was a perfect opportunity to play without them and we’d have been well beaten. Fact.
ZC are never going to get an A tour together, but ZC could pick an A side of guys that you feel have been hard done by and they could tour Harare Sports club and play our national side in a 3 match series and see how they go. Cheap, easy to arrange and we’d soon see. There were a couple of A games against the AC academy (not sure who played though) and they got beat once, make of that what you will, but that should never happen. There is no international A side on the planet that would be beaten by an academy side except here. We’ve isolated ourselves with the lack of international cricket, foreign players and tours and in no one knows what a really good player looks like anymore. We see one local guy making runs domestically and everyone gets excited and 9/10 times they’re actually bang average compared to what’s out there. Sit down with a real expert and find a clip of one of Byrom’s sublimely constructed tons, or a bit of Muyeye magic and get him to tell you what you’re really looking at and what we’re missing out on. They’re staggeringly good, we’ve got nothing like them here, not even close, I’m talking amongst the younger guys. When you have people in admin that can’t see that then I have no faith.
Let’s put this all in perspective. We have ICC full membership with about 100 half decent senior players, a few clubs that occasionally play cricket, about 6 schools and about 20 ok schoolboys and we’re expected to beat Scotland with 150 000 registered cricketers. That’s just Scotland, a country we have the audacity to sneer at!!
Less sneering and a big reality check is in order. We are so used to just surviving here that we take any crap dished out with glum and dumb resignation. Everyone spins it and says “Zimbos make a plan,” but the reality is that we’re just spineless and useless and as long as we’re doing marginally better than the guy on our right we’re happy.
The only two big government schools that really play cricket where ZC have pulled most of their black players from for many years has been Prince Edward and Churchill. Cricket has now all but collapsed there. Please don’t let anyone convince you otherwise. I don’t think they can make up B teams and they’re absolutely hopeless in every age group. Do not be taken in by any grass roots nonsense. If they can’t keep it going at Prince Edward with all their facilities and Old Boys’ support then they’re not doing it in Gokwe or Muzarabani or Bindura, take pure poison on that!!! The spin is that they’ve now spread cricket throughout and other schools are now producing players, it’s a big fat lie.
ZC are now disingenuously waxing lyrical about women’s cricket here. When there was virtually nothing before and then they organize a few games it looks like they’re doing something monumental and they’re not! They are trying to tick the box for political expediency and it’s a complete smokescreen because the rest of our cricket is an absolute diabolical shambles.
You keep whining about poor selections but have nothing bad to say about the selectors. You complain about the results but have nothing bad to say about the current coaches, you complain indirectly about poor administrative decisions made by people to whom this is supposedly a part time hobby and have political careers and yet you support this board that has led us into this cul de sac. All you delight from is trolling the guys who are going to rightfully react to your barely disguised racism and manipulation of stats to suit a very poor agenda.
Re: SHIT! Zimbabwe lost to Singapore
My ablutions are over and my arse is touching the water
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cricket_22001
- Posts: 338
- Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:20 pm
Re: SHIT! Zimbabwe lost to Singapore
Its hard to fathom how you write some good stuff and then nonsense in the same paragraph, it’s like several people are living inside your head, all fighting for the keyboard.
No, it's not several people. It's the million chimpanzees fighting to type a novel. It's the law of probability something sensible will eventually come out. But not in my life time.
No, it's not several people. It's the million chimpanzees fighting to type a novel. It's the law of probability something sensible will eventually come out. But not in my life time.
Re: SHIT! Zimbabwe lost to Singapore
Googly there is one problem that you seem to overlook. I'm involved in the game and making professional calls which define careers and come to fruition. You on the other hand are just a fan. Be grateful that I even offer up time(way too much) to contribute. You argue with my stats which are inflexible, and you're entitled to it, but the reality on the ground will not bend to your intepretation of those stats. Sean Williams is good, but he will never win ZIM any meaningful game, and Raza has a pathetic T20 record. You have a genuine David Miller and Richard Levi situation. As maligned as Duminy was, he was for a long time actually our best T20 player - top ranked batsmen, and allrounder and added more value than even AB. After that Tahir took over.
This is a thread about ZIM's losses in T20s and what to do to avoid an embarrassing Singapore situation happening again. As far as I'm concerned, within Zimbabwe right now there are ONLY FOUR non-African players who can get into the T20I squad and add winning value to it - Nathan Waller, Cremer, Murray and Malcolm Waller. And I'm picking Nathan solely as a batsman. ONLY FOUR!
You can speak of lagacy/heritage, and the number of games Williams has played but the fact remains, ZIM has been losing with all those experienced players (Hami, BT etc). This is not Tests/ODIs. It's T20Is!
Just look at the current AUS T20 squad:
Our domestic Franchise FC just started. van Tonder got a half century alongside Mokoena, while Breetzke got a duck and Qeshile is going strong. Wiaan Mulder who averages over 40 witht the bat just picked up a pair, is not even part of the Test sqiad, but is better than England's Sam Curran. The same Kagiso Rapulana whose been marginalised for years and averaging below 30, has for the past 2 season been putting up the numbers, and in the current match stood head and shoulders over every otherbatsman on a very very tough pitch. So just as I can argue Bavuma will average more than Theunis de Bruyn, Vilas, Stiaan van Zyl etc, I know why I say an Omphile Ramela and Kagiso Rapulana will do better than player A or B.
So don't discount why I say a Kasuza and Sauramba will do better for ZIM than a Sean Williams, because I know. Qualified people know these things. I'm a bigger Sean Williams fan thatn you are by the way. I just won't let that cloud my judgement. I've watched Murray, but I know for sure that he does not have the hitting ability of a Sauramba.
This is a thread about ZIM's losses in T20s and what to do to avoid an embarrassing Singapore situation happening again. As far as I'm concerned, within Zimbabwe right now there are ONLY FOUR non-African players who can get into the T20I squad and add winning value to it - Nathan Waller, Cremer, Murray and Malcolm Waller. And I'm picking Nathan solely as a batsman. ONLY FOUR!
You can speak of lagacy/heritage, and the number of games Williams has played but the fact remains, ZIM has been losing with all those experienced players (Hami, BT etc). This is not Tests/ODIs. It's T20Is!
Just look at the current AUS T20 squad:
Only Steve Smith is the anchor in that entire squad. Just one, and he might even be left out of the XI entirely.Squad Aaron Finch (capt), Ashton Agar, Alex Carey, Pat Cummins, Glenn Maxwell, Ben McDermott, Kane Richardson, Steve Smith, Billy Stanlake, Mitchell Starc, Ashton Turner, Andrew Tye, David Warner, Adam Zampa
Our domestic Franchise FC just started. van Tonder got a half century alongside Mokoena, while Breetzke got a duck and Qeshile is going strong. Wiaan Mulder who averages over 40 witht the bat just picked up a pair, is not even part of the Test sqiad, but is better than England's Sam Curran. The same Kagiso Rapulana whose been marginalised for years and averaging below 30, has for the past 2 season been putting up the numbers, and in the current match stood head and shoulders over every otherbatsman on a very very tough pitch. So just as I can argue Bavuma will average more than Theunis de Bruyn, Vilas, Stiaan van Zyl etc, I know why I say an Omphile Ramela and Kagiso Rapulana will do better than player A or B.
So don't discount why I say a Kasuza and Sauramba will do better for ZIM than a Sean Williams, because I know. Qualified people know these things. I'm a bigger Sean Williams fan thatn you are by the way. I just won't let that cloud my judgement. I've watched Murray, but I know for sure that he does not have the hitting ability of a Sauramba.
Voice of reason.