Test XI - Windies series

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CrimsonAvenger
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Re: Text XI - Windies series

Post by CrimsonAvenger »

secretzimbo wrote:
Tue Dec 13, 2022 7:40 am
ZIMDOGGY wrote:
Tue Dec 13, 2022 3:02 am
Ballance has to open.
It’s the respectful thing to do with a long set middle order.
He’s opened many times.
He is also probably our best bat so logic dictates he needs to have every opportunity to bat longer at in the middle. Especially the short formats where he could theoretically bat 50 overs instead of a capped 30 overs etc
You have a point for limited overs but not Tests. The best bats generally don’t open in Tests, especially in the current era. It’s exceptionally tough. Your best guy comes in at 4 ideally - see Root, Kohli, Smith, Williamson, Babar etc
But would he be our best though? Would be an interesting discussion - Ballance vs Williams - who is our best batsman in tests? 8-)

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jaybro
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Re: Text XI - Windies series

Post by jaybro »

I get the idea that the best batsman bats 4, but if the best batsman is best at opening, well you open with him ie Braithwaite for the Windies.

For me, Ballance is a No.3 always has been and the fact he’s played there so often in England makes it a no brainer he at least bats in the top 3 in Tests. I’d also not be against him opening in all three formats, but most certainly has to in the limited overs.

Ervine, Williams & Raza have earned their right to bat in their preferred positions imo. BT had also earned the right to comeback and bat at 3 or 4. I think with Ballance it send the wrong message to move him to No4 when Ervine & Williams also prefer that spot.
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ZIMDOGGY
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Re: Text XI - Windies series

Post by ZIMDOGGY »

I just think if he really wants that number 4 slot he needs to earn it.
At least 3.
It’s the top order we have been weak at.

Ervine is very edgy when it comes to pace early on and shouldnt be opening.

1 (Best domestic player)
2 Ballance
3 Ervine
4 Willo
5 Raza
6 Wes
7 Burl

This is the perfect line up. I only have 1 as best domestic player due to no room elsewhere.

If Ballance wants 4, he needs to earn it through a couple of hundreds, and the consequence is Wes goes to opening.
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Re: Text XI - Windies series

Post by ZIMDOGGY »

Growing up I was always told your best bat comes in at 3, seems to have changed a little
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Kallum
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Re: Text XI - Windies series

Post by Kallum »

It's a tough one really. Ervine has been making runs deluxe batting at 3 this season and hasn't opened so would seem a little strange to change what doesn't need to be fixed. Despite this I would still have him opening in my side, we have now seen two players Ben Duckett who bat's at 3 for Notts and usan Khawaja who I think bats at 5 for Queensland but certainly in the middle order open in test cricket and do well. Ervine is the player who has the most recent experience in the international game (hardly any test cricket ik) but for me despite agreeing that his best place is probs 3 I think Ballance is the better player overall and should be protected at 3.

My xi would look something like.

1. Kaia/ other domestic opener based on form
2. Ervine
3. Ballance
4. Williams
5. Raza
6. Madhevere
7. Chakabva/Madande - based on regis' availability
8. Burl - would prefer him up the order higher honestly but the batting is pretty stacked
9. Evans
10. Ngarava
11. Muzarabani

It's such a shame so many teams hardly play any test cricket anymore but I'm so happy it is finally returning to zimbabwe. I'm very tempted to fly in for it ngl. Thankfully ZC have in the last few years organised regular first class cricket in the Logan Cup on pitches which have been quite similar to the standard and character put out in the West indies (I don't mean that derogaterilly)

In terms of previewing against the west indies and I know its a long way away but Tagenarine Chanderpaul looks a really quality opener against (no offense to the zimbo attack) a bowling attack of much higher potency. Kraigg Brathwaite is an excellent opener alongside him also - they're probs the only two batters that I would honestly consider test quality though the middle order is quite frankly feeble. Josh Da Silva is an excellent keeper but has some work to do with his batting still.

In terms of the west indian bowling attack, Holder and Roach are phenomenal even as they are both now getting older. Joseph is a peculiar one, he has it all on paper, pace, bounce and even occasionally movement but just lacks repeatability and seems to not threaten the bat anywhere near as much as he should. Mayers is a good reliable almost English barrel chested medium pacer. Despite creating pitches suited for spinners they seem to lack a test quality spinner though - rahkeem Cornwall would definitely be test quality if picked but ik he has had some personal issues alongside some more public issues with the board over fitness matters other than him I don't see them picking chase against as he is a bit shite honestly, Jomel warrican looks past it leaving probably a gudakesh motie as their only other option.

Apologies for the essay had a bit to say on this one.

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Re: Text XI - Windies series

Post by sscricket »

Please find room for Nyauchi... medium pace is not enough.. need seam to go down straight not scrambled

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Re: Text XI - Windies series

Post by Kriterion_BD »

Do you really want to give Ballance his choice of spot when he just flies into the country because things went wrong elsewhere (whatever be the specific circumstances)? The assumption so far has been that he's the indisputable best batter in the country. Maybe he is, but there's a chance he's lower down the pecking order. Williams has been batting at a pretty high level since about 2017 or so...

The risk of over-prioritizing a foreign reject, over the guys who have been sweating it out in ZIM for years does have the possibility of being a bit harsh. It might be a good idea then, to have Ballance open. He's almost surely good enough to make the top 6, but the incumbents at 3-5 have done very well across formats the past several seasons. Key word, several. Harsh to make Ervine open just to accommodate Ballance.

Idk what the right answer here is.
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secretzimbo
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Re: Text XI - Windies series

Post by secretzimbo »

Just watching England annihilate their opposition yet again going at 9 an over in a Test.....

...At what point does every other country just completely abandon orthodox test cricket and take on a similar approach?

The difference being of course that their players are of an incredible quality whilst most of ours aren't.

But do we think okay, maybe we should throw Marumani in to the Test team after all? Maybe we start looking for players with the right personalities and attitudes as much as we do actual skill?

Interesting times, cricket is changing. We are still lagging behind with an aggressive approach even in T20, let alone Test cricket. How do we adapt or try to get ahead of the curve?

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Re: Text XI - Windies series

Post by CrimsonAvenger »

secretzimbo wrote:
Mon Dec 19, 2022 11:58 am
Just watching England annihilate their opposition yet again going at 9 an over in a Test.....

...At what point does every other country just completely abandon orthodox test cricket and take on a similar approach?

The difference being of course that their players are of an incredible quality whilst most of ours aren't.
Yeah, one would think that early adopters who can execute well will have an advantage. This appears like an incredible paradigm shift - like what Jayasuriya and Kalu did for ODIs in mid 90s.

Can Zim get on the bandwagon earlier than others? Can we execute this well? Probably not. Is it worth trying? Surely it is, isn't it?

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Re: Text XI - Windies series

Post by CrimsonAvenger »

It actually frightens me. What if the West Indians decide to adopt this approach against us? They have nothing much to lose and a lot to gain...

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