[Match Thread] Zimbabwe v Netherlands, 2nd ODI, Harare, 23 Mar 2023

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secretzimbo
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Re: [Match Thread] Zimbabwe v Netherlands, 2nd ODI, Harare, 23 Mar 2023

Post by secretzimbo »

ZIMDOGGY wrote:
Fri Mar 24, 2023 1:24 pm
I think with Zimbabwea place in the hierarchy, everyone would understand that 8 bats over 7 as an insurance is good. We all know how notoriously unreliable we are. It’s lack of fort hand lack of talent compared to the best teams.
Your 3 seamers represent the 3 tail Enders. Raza and Williams are reliable ten over soinners with Burl and Wes yo intersect that.
Raza is ten countries best attacking spinner (or at least equal give or take) and Williams is just as good as say, Wellington.
Wellington is a much much better, consistent bowler than Williams.

Mavuta has shown he deserves a long run in the team too, and is a much more exciting option than Raza with the ball.

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mnelson68
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Re: [Match Thread] Zimbabwe v Netherlands, 2nd ODI, Harare, 23 Mar 2023

Post by mnelson68 »

ZIMDOGGY wrote:
Fri Mar 24, 2023 1:13 pm
secretzimbo wrote:
Fri Mar 24, 2023 1:06 pm
What sort of team picks someone especially for their batting and then puts them at number 8?

It's harking back to that dogshite '8-3' mantra people on here used to go on about. Small team mentality.
8-3 I think does work for Zimbabwe, because Williams offers decent left arm off spin, Wes and Raza decent spon and Burl. Then you have three bowlers that’s 70 potential overs covered
100%

secretzimbo
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Re: [Match Thread] Zimbabwe v Netherlands, 2nd ODI, Harare, 23 Mar 2023

Post by secretzimbo »

It's going to seriously come back to bite you if you are relying on Burl, Raza and Williams as the only spin options. None are anywhere near consistent enough for 50-over cricket.

You can probably get away with it in T20's where they only need to bowl an over or two each.

Always pick a spinner.

secretzimbo
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Re: [Match Thread] Zimbabwe v Netherlands, 2nd ODI, Harare, 23 Mar 2023

Post by secretzimbo »

You've also got a qualifier coming up with half the matches in Bulawayo (spin friendly) and the world cup itself in the subcontinent. There's no way whatsoever you play in India without a spinner just because you think Ryan Burl can bat at number 8 and score 20 off 12 balls once every 10 matches :lol:

tawac
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Re: [Match Thread] Zimbabwe v Netherlands, 2nd ODI, Harare, 23 Mar 2023

Post by tawac »

TapsC2 wrote:
Fri Mar 24, 2023 10:31 am
Burl is Malcolm Waller all over again. Very similar players actually.
You said it. Whats a Zim team without a team mascot. Burl's performances are too few and far between. I think currently we have the luxury of not having any passengers in the team, if someone is not performing may as well make room for the next guy in line. Burl can easily be swapped for Kaia to bolster the batting or Mavuta in the bowling.
CHRISTOPHER MPOFU: 'The problem was fear of failure. I used to think that when I played, if I didn't do well in one game, I would lose my place for the next one but now I've let go of that'

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mnelson68
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Re: [Match Thread] Zimbabwe v Netherlands, 2nd ODI, Harare, 23 Mar 2023

Post by mnelson68 »

secretzimbo wrote:
Fri Mar 24, 2023 1:29 pm
ZIMDOGGY wrote:
Fri Mar 24, 2023 1:24 pm
I think with Zimbabwea place in the hierarchy, everyone would understand that 8 bats over 7 as an insurance is good. We all know how notoriously unreliable we are. It’s lack of fort hand lack of talent compared to the best teams.
Your 3 seamers represent the 3 tail Enders. Raza and Williams are reliable ten over soinners with Burl and Wes yo intersect that.
Raza is ten countries best attacking spinner (or at least equal give or take) and Williams is just as good as say, Wellington.
Wellington is a much much better, consistent bowler than Williams.

Mavuta has shown he deserves a long run in the team too, and is a much more exciting option than Raza with the ball.
Extraordinary

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mnelson68
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Re: [Match Thread] Zimbabwe v Netherlands, 2nd ODI, Harare, 23 Mar 2023

Post by mnelson68 »

secretzimbo wrote:
Fri Mar 24, 2023 1:31 pm
It's going to seriously come back to bite you if you are relying on Burl, Raza and Williams as the only spin options. None are anywhere near consistent enough for 50-over cricket.

You can probably get away with it in T20's where they only need to bowl an over or two each.

Always pick a spinner.
4 spin options that would only need to bowl 20-25 overs

secretzimbo
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Re: [Match Thread] Zimbabwe v Netherlands, 2nd ODI, Harare, 23 Mar 2023

Post by secretzimbo »

mnelson68 wrote:
Fri Mar 24, 2023 1:35 pm
secretzimbo wrote:
Fri Mar 24, 2023 1:29 pm
ZIMDOGGY wrote:
Fri Mar 24, 2023 1:24 pm
I think with Zimbabwea place in the hierarchy, everyone would understand that 8 bats over 7 as an insurance is good. We all know how notoriously unreliable we are. It’s lack of fort hand lack of talent compared to the best teams.
Your 3 seamers represent the 3 tail Enders. Raza and Williams are reliable ten over soinners with Burl and Wes yo intersect that.
Raza is ten countries best attacking spinner (or at least equal give or take) and Williams is just as good as say, Wellington.
Wellington is a much much better, consistent bowler than Williams.

Mavuta has shown he deserves a long run in the team too, and is a much more exciting option than Raza with the ball.
Extraordinary
Which part? I think both are very reaosnable statements

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CrimsonAvenger
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Re: [Match Thread] Zimbabwe v Netherlands, 2nd ODI, Harare, 23 Mar 2023

Post by CrimsonAvenger »

We need to see this once in a while from the point of view of our specialist spinners too. Guys like Wellington and Mavuta have never had the luxury of learning from world class spin coaches all their lives. They have learnt all the tricks of their trade pretty much themselves. With some local coaches at best. Not easy with nearly zero exposure. They committed themselves to this branch of cricket early in their careers and proved themselves domestically over multiple seasons despite all odds and no guidance. They get to the national level and see an extreme 8-3 combination robs them of their chance regularly, most of the time for no mistake of their own. 8-3 can be a stop gap arrangement, not a regular strategy.

One can understand being a Narendra Hirwani in Anil Kumble’s era or being a Stuart McGill in Shane Warne’s era and accepting their unfortunate fate of being active at the time of their country’s premier spinner. At least it is a like for like thing. That they could not play much can be explained away with this. How should players like Wellington, Mavuta, and other spinners in Zim feel about being sidelined from plying their trade because coach after coach felt 8-3 was necessary due to the batting order being brittle and they had to insure that for regular failures, sacrificing the specialist spinner role for that? A regular 7-4 could be acceptable, but a regular 8-3? Why should the Wallers and Burls of this world who could not become better batters than heave some from positions 7 or 8 and bowl occasionally well genuinely take away what these guys worked hard for? On top of that, these two guys themselves aren’t mugs with the bat and are very good fielders, thus bringing multi-dimensional abilities themselves. What more can they do beyond this - again, all on their own too?

Saint_Mel
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Re: [Match Thread] Zimbabwe v Netherlands, 2nd ODI, Harare, 23 Mar 2023

Post by Saint_Mel »

Are people just going to pretend that Williams doesn't have serious fitness issues and asking him to bowl 7+ overs a match as the first choice left-arm orthodox won't be a risk at all.

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