3rd T20I | Zimbabwe vs India | July 10, 2024

[mnelson68]

Well we now all want to see Knackers.
Shumba and Madhevere are like for like. Both good players, both are a bit slow in this format. Wes has had a lot more experience than Milton and more time up the order. Milton has had limited opportunity up top. But he is very similar in my opinion.

I really hope they don't drop Jonno. He deserves some opportunity. I think he was essentially Ryan's replacement so who will be our middle order banger?
If they drop him for Knackers then we'd expect him to bat in Jonno's spot. That's a softer entry. Throw him in the deep end

Bennett
Marumani
Naqvi
Myers
Raza
Campbell
Madande

That's my top 7

[sam_ahm]

I don't know why all of you think opening the batting in LOIs is a difficult thing??? It is the best place to bat... These days the ball doesn't do much, the pitches are usually flat and you get full quota of overs to bat. The hard ball also travels far. You see most of the big run getters across the world in LOIs are openers.

It's a different thing altogether that Zimbabwe hasn't been able to produce a single good opening batsman in recent times. That's a shame.

Batting at 6 is far more difficult. You have to go right from the word go, no time to settle and the softer ball is a bit difficult to hit.

[Pat_Bee]

Everyone’s living in the past rolling down Salisbury town for ouzo and cokes, piece of cake these days opening with two new balls, monster sized bats and the ropes right in Wez and innocent are just useless.

[secretzimbo]

Sam you may have a valid point in reference to T20’s.

It’s different for ODIs though, the majority of ours which start at 9am in Harare usually in winter. Opening there and then is the hardest gig in cricket.

But T20 yes maybe you have a point.

[ZIMDOGGY]

I don't know why all of you think opening the batting in LOIs is a difficult thing??? It is the best place to bat... These days the ball doesn't do much, the pitches are usually flat and you get full quota of overs to bat. The hard ball also travels far. You see most of the big run getters across the world in LOIs are openers.

It's a different thing altogether that Zimbabwe hasn't been able to produce a single good opening batsman in recent times. That's a shame.

Batting at 6 is far more difficult. You have to go right from the word go, no time to settle and the softer ball is a bit difficult to hit.

People here stuck in the older thinking.

In T20’s it is more magnified.

At the risk of sounding as adamant as Andrea and the tapeball, best place to bat *in a T20* is opener.
This is pretty obvious to most T20 teams I see around the world and it should be more in Zimbabwe considering the range of our batting talent from 1-6 is more vast than most countries.

In a T20, you get 20 overs obviously, so you are already coming in at the equivalent of the 30 over mark in a LOI.

An opener, if he lasts until over 20, gets a statistical maximum of 60 balls to face. Possibly as many as 75, but would be almost unheard of to face more.
To give ourselves the optimum statistical chance to win, you need the optimal amount of time for your best batsman to be out in the middle. If they last the distance or get close to it, we probably win. We can set the stage for the rest to come in with less pressure despite having a better chance of failing early since they need to get their eye in quickly.
The opener, your best or most damaging, has the added luxury of getting their eye in, and mis hitting with probable chance of success in the 30 ball power play at the front.

The concept of a ‘late order finisher’ is not really needed in T20s as you have to basically be close to finisher mode from the beginning.

And when Raza, who I put forward is our best T20 bat, comes in at 4 in the 4th over, all he has really done is rob himself of the chance to get his eye in during the power play and yield maximum total return for the team.

Strange to me only Sam_ahm and Pat Bee seem to be seeing this.

[ZIMDOGGY]

.

[ZIMDOGGY]

Well we now all want to see Knackers.
Shumba and Madhevere are like for like. Both good players, both are a bit slow in this format. Wes has had a lot more experience than Milton and more time up the order. Milton has had limited opportunity up top. But he is very similar in my opinion.

I really hope they don't drop Jonno. He deserves some opportunity. I think he was essentially Ryan's replacement so who will be our middle order banger?
If they drop him for Knackers then we'd expect him to bat in Jonno's spot. That's a softer entry. Throw him in the deep end

Bennett
Marumani
Naqvi
Myers
Raza
Campbell
Madande

That's my top 7

No worries, have our best bat coming in the 11th over at 4/50 so he can face 30 balls, eye in after 4.

[Pat_Bee]

At least one or two guys are coming round to Bennett opening, we’re halfway there

You don’t need Raza down the order finishing if he’s up top getting us off to a blistering start. All the good teams easily go at 10 an over in the powerplay, bare minimum. Do the hard work early on and the good teams will double their score after 12 if it’s a road. We’re behind the 8-ball from ball one and 90% of the time the game is lost by the time Raza comes in.

[Pat_Bee]

The concept of a ‘late order finisher’ is not really needed in T20s as you have to basically be close to finisher mode from the beginning.

Ya, the finisher if such a thing exists in t20 is a guy who’ll take the score well above par, bonus runs if you will. We count on ours to get us out a hole and bring us somewhere near par after the trainwreck powerplay

But yeah, basically everyone is in finisher mode from the off in t20; literally a couple of balls to get your eye in then swing.

[Googly]

So Klaasen and Miller should open for SA? If the theory held up they'd win every game.
Dhoni used to regularly say that anyone can open but you needed the best batters to finish. He maintained openers didn't have to strategize as much, just see ball hit ball.
How many times does an opener carry his bat?
I get the maths part of facing the most deliveries, but it so rarely happens that its not really a factor. If you looked at the stats you'd find that on average most good batters only last about 30 deliveries, probably less.
There are also some fantastic openers. It's an interesting topic.
If there's swing on offer the new ball swings for about 4 or 5 overs. There's also a bit more bounce and nip in the first 5. Enough to be significant.
You're also facing their best quick most times and his adrenaline is pumping, sometimes their best 2 quicks.
As far as pace goes, swing is what really troubles batters. Hands down. Swing and bounce is tough to deal with and it becomes less after 4-6 overs.
If you've never really opened how easy is it to suddenly give it a go? Its a big thing to get your head around.
Personally I don't think Raza would do well. He's opened for us a couple of times and against "lesser" attacks and he couldn't get it away for the first 3 or 4 overs.
He also faces spin better than most of our guys, so make sure he's at the crease when they come on, surely?
If you're batting first you also don't know what to expect pitch-wise. The guys following you have a little preview.

Just read an interesting article where they compared red ball averages of guys who'd opened and also batted middle order and it surprisingly didn't show too much difference. The individuals differed but the spread was strange, some guys did better opening. But this was red ball.

We currently have nothing to lose, except even more credibility it would be an interesting move.