Corruption and mismanagement in the ZCB

[Pat_Bee]

Everyone got a big pay day off Mr X for that 57 all out game, clearly cold, hard American. None of this bond notes, ZiG or magic beans.

[sam_ahm]

Guys, just wanted your view on this, as I was thinking that post that white players exodus in 2004, The Zimbabwe team became very weak but managed to stay fairly competitive against much tougher opponents.

Do you guys think that players like Tinashe Panyangara, Elton Chigumbura, Blessing Mahwire, Matsikenyeri, Barney Rogers, Mark Vermeulen, M Nkala were better than the present day players as they came from a stronger system?

The numbers may not show that because they played against tougher opponents and barely against the associates.

I'm not talking about Brendan Taylor, Hamilton Mazakadza and Tatenda Taibu as they were world class and we obviously know they were better, but I'm talking about the support players of that time compared to the likes of C Ervine, Myers, Madhevere, Jarvis, Evans, Chatara, Tiripano, Wellington, Jongwe, and the rest of the present era or the latter era.

So basically the structure now is so weak that we no longer see stronger/better players coming through?

[Googly]

It's half half. They came out of a collapsing stronger system, but I firmly believe world cricket has got stronger. There's more money, more players, better training aids, better coaching etc etc. and the good guys practice much longer hours with better coaching and facilities.

The way batters hit these days you never saw back then. Batting has gone up a couple of notches.
Mystery spinners have multiplied exponentially.

I've said this a million times- they deliberately dismantled our incredibly strong club cricket that was our main feeder system and they chased the whites away forever- our main batting source. It's still seen as a massive victory. It's just weird.
We now pick from 6 decent schools instead of about 20 good ones. Another huge problem and this ain't being fixed. Ever!!
We now have to put nets up in Gokwe and hope someone has enough time from hunting and gathering and walking 10km to school and back to practice 3 hours a day with no equipment and a Level 1 coach. It cannot work eva!!

I firmly believe we still have some very good players. The way they get treated or mistreated is most of the problem. We don't have HPC's and top coaches. It's just bizarre.

Williams would have played in any team we had, probably Raza as well.
NW and Sam Curran were the two best schoolboy batsmen, apart from Hick, that we've ever seen in this country. I'm talking in a hundred years of cricket. They'd scored about 40 hundreds between them before they left here aged 14 and 16. Nobody ever came close to that or ever will. One of them is still here watching his career rot away. The one thing I will guarantee is he'd have been better than Madhevere after 110 caps or Maru after his 59, but we will never know.

No world class batter will ever come through our system again. It's finished. They would have to finish their schooling in SA or UK.
You can cheat by getting good 'uns to play up in age groups and get them into club at an early age, but theyd have to be real good. The last guys to do this successfully were Byrom and Welch and Welch Jr. Haven't seen anyone do it well since then. Haven't seen anyone attempt it actually.

Guys like Myers, Bhawa, Schadendorf jr, Marumani, Shumba and Welch Jr escaped the mediocrity by being in the u19 set ups for 4 years from a young age, especially thru the Covid scam where no school cricket was played. They did a lot of volume, but were poorly coached. A couple of these guys you can do something with.

[Pat_Bee]

We now have to put nets up in Gokwe and hope someone has enough time from hunting and gathering and walking 10km to school and back to practice 3 hours a day with no equipment and a Level 1 coach. It cannot work eva!!

uphill both ways, in 40 degree heat and the only shade being the shade cast from cynical posters right

[eugene]

Guys, just wanted your view on this, as I was thinking that post that white players exodus in 2004, The Zimbabwe team became very weak but managed to stay fairly competitive against much tougher opponents.

Do you guys think that players like Tinashe Panyangara, Elton Chigumbura, Blessing Mahwire, Matsikenyeri, Barney Rogers, Mark Vermeulen, M Nkala were better than the present day players as they came from a stronger system?

The numbers may not show that because they played against tougher opponents and barely against the associates.

I'm not talking about Brendan Taylor, Hamilton Mazakadza and Tatenda Taibu as they were world class and we obviously know they were better, but I'm talking about the support players of that time compared to the likes of C Ervine, Myers, Madhevere, Jarvis, Evans, Chatara, Tiripano, Wellington, Jongwe, and the rest of the present era or the latter era.

So basically the structure now is so weak that we no longer see stronger/better players coming through?

In 2024 we had a bunch of young guys thrust into the team who had actually done quite well in international age group cricket - Rainsford, Chigumbura, Cremer, Craig Ervine, Panyangara, Taylor, Utseya, and Williams were all in the 2004 Under-19 squad that finished 5th at the CWC. Think how far away our youngsters are from finishing 5th in the world now?!

[sam_ahm]

It's half half. They came out of a collapsing stronger system, but I firmly believe world cricket has got stronger. There's more money, more players, better training aids, better coaching etc etc. and the good guys practice much longer hours with better coaching and facilities.

The way batters hit these days you never saw back then. Batting has gone up a couple of notches.
Mystery spinners have multiplied exponentially.

I've said this a million times- they deliberately dismantled our incredibly strong club cricket that was our main feeder system and they chased the whites away forever- our main batting source. It's still seen as a massive victory. It's just weird.
We now pick from 6 decent schools instead of about 20 good ones. Another huge problem and this ain't being fixed. Ever!!
We now have to put nets up in Gokwe and hope someone has enough time from hunting and gathering and walking 10km to school and back to practice 3 hours a day with no equipment and a Level 1 coach. It cannot work eva!!

I firmly believe we still have some very good players. The way they get treated or mistreated is most of the problem. We don't have HPC's and top coaches. It's just bizarre.

Williams would have played in any team we had, probably Raza as well.
NW and Sam Curran were the two best schoolboy batsmen, apart from Hick, that we've ever seen in this country. I'm talking in a hundred years of cricket. They'd scored about 40 hundreds between them before they left here aged 14 and 16. Nobody ever came close to that or ever will. One of them is still here watching his career rot away. The one thing I will guarantee is he'd have been better than Madhevere after 110 caps or Maru after his 59, but we will never know.

No world class batter will ever come through our system again. It's finished. They would have to finish their schooling in SA or UK.
You can cheat by getting good 'uns to play up in age groups and get them into club at an early age, but theyd have to be real good. The last guys to do this successfully were Byrom and Welch and Welch Jr. Haven't seen anyone do it well since then. Haven't seen anyone attempt it actually.

Guys like Myers, Bhawa, Schadendorf jr, Marumani, Shumba and Welch Jr escaped the mediocrity by being in the u19 set ups for 4 years from a young age, especially thru the Covid scam where no school cricket was played. They did a lot of volume, but were poorly coached. A couple of these guys you can do something with.

That's a pretty depressing outlook googly and that's the impression we as outsiders get too, that Zimbabwe no longer produce world class cricketers. Most of them are only good for associate level cricket and not elite class.

There was hope when I saw Heath Streak coaching the side in 2017/18 and somehow that side looked like it can do bigger things, it was a team that was beating Afghanistan consistently to now when the gap appears to be massive. It is all in 6 years time...looks like Afghans have gone lightyears ahead of Zimbabwe in these 6 years. How sad is that?

I still feel that one game against UAE to this date continues to haunt Zimbabwe cricket. If those 12 runs were scored back then, then who knows what path ZC could have taken... A WC qualification, lot of better players who went to UK could have stayed back, more money flowing in, Streak continuing and building a stronger team, no ICC ban which means they would have played the 2021 T20 WC as well... Lot of things could have been different.

[therealbigdeal]

I put 'big say' in quotes for a reason and you will soon find out why. Selection has always been political and will remain political. This is how things will play out. A young Black ODI and Test Captain is being announced 'soon' (i want to tell you the name but will put unnecessary and unwanted attention and scrutiny on him at the moment).

The Captain, Coach and Selector will deliberate on the squad selection. The captain is young and trying to find his feet in International cricket so will be at mercy of appointing authority. He will not go against the appointing authority.

Anything on this at all??

[andruid]

It's half half. They came out of a collapsing stronger system, but I firmly believe world cricket has got stronger. There's more money, more players, better training aids, better coaching etc etc. and the good guys practice much longer hours with better coaching and facilities.

The way batters hit these days you never saw back then. Batting has gone up a couple of notches.
Mystery spinners have multiplied exponentially.

I've said this a million times- they deliberately dismantled our incredibly strong club cricket that was our main feeder system and they chased the whites away forever- our main batting source. It's still seen as a massive victory. It's just weird.
We now pick from 6 decent schools instead of about 20 good ones. Another huge problem and this ain't being fixed. Ever!!
We now have to put nets up in Gokwe and hope someone has enough time from hunting and gathering and walking 10km to school and back to practice 3 hours a day with no equipment and a Level 1 coach. It cannot work eva!!

I firmly believe we still have some very good players. The way they get treated or mistreated is most of the problem. We don't have HPC's and top coaches. It's just bizarre.

Williams would have played in any team we had, probably Raza as well.
NW and Sam Curran were the two best schoolboy batsmen, apart from Hick, that we've ever seen in this country. I'm talking in a hundred years of cricket. They'd scored about 40 hundreds between them before they left here aged 14 and 16. Nobody ever came close to that or ever will. One of them is still here watching his career rot away. The one thing I will guarantee is he'd have been better than Madhevere after 110 caps or Maru after his 59, but we will never know.

No world class batter will ever come through our system again. It's finished. They would have to finish their schooling in SA or UK.
You can cheat by getting good 'uns to play up in age groups and get them into club at an early age, but theyd have to be real good. The last guys to do this successfully were Byrom and Welch and Welch Jr. Haven't seen anyone do it well since then. Haven't seen anyone attempt it actually.

Guys like Myers, Bhawa, Schadendorf jr, Marumani, Shumba and Welch Jr escaped the mediocrity by being in the u19 set ups for 4 years from a young age, especially thru the Covid scam where no school cricket was played. They did a lot of volume, but were poorly coached. A couple of these guys you can do something with.

I reckon what this means is that things like the Logan Cup, and other domestic competitions running presently are just not the 'finishing school' that Zimbabwe needs for it's cricketing talents?

[Googly]

I put 'big say' in quotes for a reason and you will soon find out why. Selection has always been political and will remain political. This is how things will play out. A young Black ODI and Test Captain is being announced 'soon' (i want to tell you the name but will put unnecessary and unwanted attention and scrutiny on him at the moment).

The Captain, Coach and Selector will deliberate on the squad selection. The captain is young and trying to find his feet in International cricket so will be at mercy of appointing authority. He will not go against the appointing authority.

Anything on this at all??

Well that would have been Dion. He's had a poor run so that plan is delayed, but he just needs to get going and he will be the man.

[Googly]

It's half half. They came out of a collapsing stronger system, but I firmly believe world cricket has got stronger. There's more money, more players, better training aids, better coaching etc etc. and the good guys practice much longer hours with better coaching and facilities.

The way batters hit these days you never saw back then. Batting has gone up a couple of notches.
Mystery spinners have multiplied exponentially.

I've said this a million times- they deliberately dismantled our incredibly strong club cricket that was our main feeder system and they chased the whites away forever- our main batting source. It's still seen as a massive victory. It's just weird.
We now pick from 6 decent schools instead of about 20 good ones. Another huge problem and this ain't being fixed. Ever!!
We now have to put nets up in Gokwe and hope someone has enough time from hunting and gathering and walking 10km to school and back to practice 3 hours a day with no equipment and a Level 1 coach. It cannot work eva!!

I firmly believe we still have some very good players. The way they get treated or mistreated is most of the problem. We don't have HPC's and top coaches. It's just bizarre.

Williams would have played in any team we had, probably Raza as well.
NW and Sam Curran were the two best schoolboy batsmen, apart from Hick, that we've ever seen in this country. I'm talking in a hundred years of cricket. They'd scored about 40 hundreds between them before they left here aged 14 and 16. Nobody ever came close to that or ever will. One of them is still here watching his career rot away. The one thing I will guarantee is he'd have been better than Madhevere after 110 caps or Maru after his 59, but we will never know.

No world class batter will ever come through our system again. It's finished. They would have to finish their schooling in SA or UK.
You can cheat by getting good 'uns to play up in age groups and get them into club at an early age, but theyd have to be real good. The last guys to do this successfully were Byrom and Welch and Welch Jr. Haven't seen anyone do it well since then. Haven't seen anyone attempt it actually.

Guys like Myers, Bhawa, Schadendorf jr, Marumani, Shumba and Welch Jr escaped the mediocrity by being in the u19 set ups for 4 years from a young age, especially thru the Covid scam where no school cricket was played. They did a lot of volume, but were poorly coached. A couple of these guys you can do something with.

I reckon what this means is that things like the Logan Cup, and other domestic competitions running presently are just not the 'finishing school' that Zimbabwe needs for it's cricketing talents?

This is an old topic, bud. No its not.but always worth repeating it-


There are other options. Winter cricket elsewhere if players are good enough.
A high performance centre with someone like Houghton.
A tours.
County sides coming here at this time of year. That's huge and needs to be encouraged. They need to play the right guys here so it's competitive.
More domestic T20.
We need our own T20 blast. Second and third tier guys are plenty good enough. Anything to improve our woeful lot.
That corrupt T10 joke needs to be straightened out. It's a good thing if done properly.
Play Namibia more often.
Top batters and bowlers going to renowned academies in SA, Aus, India etc. Obviously we need our own here but this is an alternative and an addition. Has to be the good players, not friends and relatives.
A couple more pros to beef up our domestic.
Better domestic selections, not picking favorites and dead wood.
Pay the better players a living wage so they can practice and play with clearer heads. Players shouldn't have to forage in dustbins.
Avoid having to play lesser African teams
You play at that level and that's where you'll stay.
That's coming our way on spades to bolster African Comps and make ZC look good.

Pick the best players with the highest ceiling regardless of race. Give the whites a chance. Get the white community interested in cricket again. Like it or not they are a source of good players.