Where to from here?

[ZIMDOGGY]

Listening to Dave’s press conference, this is what I took out of it

- Sounds like the end is close for him, he mentioned that when he 1st took the role “ears were open” and the players were listening to him. Now he said it’s a battle to get players enthusiastic and even punctual.

He mentioned the changing room needed “new voices” and also that it might be a good idea for him to move into a different department of ZC. I recall listening to an interview he did with Dean DuPlessis & these were the words or phrases he used when talking about why he quit as HC after the 1999 WC.

He did say he was still very passionate about ZC, so hopefully they can move him into a grass roots position, he’s just too valuable to be totally lost to ZC.

- He referred to the lack of depth or lack of runs for players in the domestic game. He said that a full strength Zimbabwe was still a strong team, but without the senior players the quality isn’t there.

He mentioned that the fact the next batch of players aren’t scoring hundreds for their franchises meant the expectation they could do so for Zimbabwe was too big a jump. Makes sense and something Taibu lamented back around 2017/18 that players need to be scoring 100s not 50s.

- He also lamented the selection process, he said he’d like to know earlier who was going on which tour so he could try to prepare the players. This is something we’ve all been frustrated about that we don’t know who’s in the squad until just before the first game. Sounds like the coach doesn’t get much more notice than us.

- He also said that the change room hasn’t gotten over the CWCQ loss to Scotland yet, and nor had he. It took ages for the team to get over the 2018 failure and it looks as though history is repeating itself once again.

He said they are a superior team to the other sides they played at the African qualifiers, but the morale and confidence in the change room is shot after the Scotland game.


Ultimately I think it’s clear Dave’s time is running out now as Head Coach, he knows it and I think he probably agrees with it. Who will be next coach I’m not sure, but a head coach of a national team can only do so much. By the time a player gets to international cricket, a coach can only influence or improve them so much.

A lot of people here are bemoaning team selections, sure some are puzzling but that’s cricket and I guess you’ll never please everyone. But the idea that things would or could be different just by better selections is a fallacy imo.

As Dave pointed out, there’s no one back in domestic cricket dominating and scoring 100s consistently. A young kid who’s score 1 or 2 half centuries isn’t going to be Virat Kohli. Bringing in some club cricketer from England or South Africa isn’t going to provide Zim with a Mitchell Starc.

Until they fix the grassroots game and play on better pitches nothing will ever change.

Taibu actually said players need to be scoring double centuries in Logan Cup to get 100s internationally. Which is something he used to do despite being an average bat on the world stage, and what we see Craig etc do now when applying themselves domestically.
Madande 150 recently was a good sign.

Good catch regarding the pattern of vocabulary that Dave has used. Sounds like he’s over it.
Coaches come in with good ideas and then after they have implemented ideas (successfully or not) what happens two years later? There’s only so many ideas.
But I still maintain it’s the technical coaching we need to improve not the head coach.

Also I wonder when Dave says dressing room, if he’s just referring to Williams, Raza, Ervine and maybe Burl, Blessing and Richard.
These are the only guys guaranteed of selection every game really. Anyone else is still in the stage of happy ti be in the 11.
I can’t see Innocent Kaia saying to people ‘cuz, I’m not over the Scotland game’ but I can see Willo, after busting his ass against shit attacks all tourney then turning around and saying it’s getting to him. He’s playing like it too. His body language is that of a quiet quitter.
Hopefully he stays around because I can see him motivated closer to the next World Cup. Would be a great swansong.

[secretzimbo]

At the risk of incessantly repeating myself-
We are about to tour Sri Lanka, they haven't announced a squad, those that get selected should not be playing the next red ball fixture, they should be training and strategizing to limit the thrashing that awaits us if we go in cold.
Happened against Namibia but its faded into distant memory.
Are they waiting to see who gets a 50 next game?

Don't forget it was announced by ZC that DH was solely in charge of selection hence he should go, yet he hasn't gone and clearly not solely responsible or we'd have a squad in training by now. Our first tour against a serious side in a while and we're in tatters.
It doesn't make sense, we're repeating the mistakes and we are sinking daily. Did the Board get a 13th cheque this year for a job well done?

Hear hear

[secretzimbo]

We need to tighten the competition and the way for that is to revert to a 4 team comp.
That tightens and chips out 20% of the deadweight.
The real issue is t teams at full strength, it’s when you omit 14/15 guys on tour. You get some real dregs dragged up from the NPL.

Yes and no.
Yes in theory but no in practice.

If you reduce the teams to 4 there is no guarantee that the franchises won’t still select Cunningham Ncube and co instead of deserving players.

Heck, if there were only two teams I’m sure the in-crowd and the favourites would still get picked each week at the expense of better players.

[ZIMDOGGY]

We need to tighten the competition and the way for that is to revert to a 4 team comp.
That tightens and chips out 20% of the deadweight.
The real issue is t teams at full strength, it’s when you omit 14/15 guys on tour. You get some real dregs dragged up from the NPL.

Yes and no.
Yes in theory but no in practice.

If you reduce the teams to 4 there is no guarantee that the franchises won’t still select Cunningham Ncube and co instead of deserving players.

Heck, if there were only two teams I’m sure the in-crowd and the favourites would still get picked each week at the expense of better players.

Ok but if they are still going to select Cunningham ncube we are going to fall further and the heat wil be on the board - including funding from icc

[secretzimbo]

I don't mind having 5 franchises. It might feel like a bit of a backward step if we reduce numbers now.

I'd rather we focused on improving the quality of the 5, rather than reverting to 4. Have better coaches, have better selection, carry fewer passengers, have more training and professionalisation of the franchises. More marketing/comms, more games at their home grounds and perhaps academy and/or B sides for each.

If the problem is 'the franchises are low quality', to me the solution is 'let's increase the quality of each of them', rather than getting rid.

[ZIMDOGGY]

I don't mind having 5 franchises. It might feel like a bit of a backward step if we reduce numbers now.

I'd rather we focused on improving the quality of the 5, rather than reverting to 4. Have better coaches, have better selection, carry fewer passengers, have more training and professionalisation of the franchises. More marketing/comms, more games at their home grounds and perhaps academy and/or B sides for each.

If the problem is 'the franchises are low quality', to me the solution is 'let's increase the quality of each of them', rather than getting rid.

I do see your point, but I just think even with four clubs we are too weak, so your point applies but at present we probably only have enough players worthy for two teams, so even getting competition for four will be a hill.

Get 4x squads of 12 and pay them well. The rest of the squad at this stage has to be imports.
Also have some development contracts in place for youngsters 25 (or 21?) and under, for pathways purposes.

[Googly]

They don't like paying young guys. There's a big seniority thing here. They struggled at that age so why make it easy is the philosophy. It's not like it worked
There are plenty of senior guys not leading by example, pitching up late for practice or not at all and just going through the motions. Coaches won't or can't drop them either.
There are people in authority from franchise up to national not seeing the big picture.
I saw a young guy at a franchise game emptying what was left of team lunch into a plastic bag to eat for dinner and breakfast the next day so he could save all of the daily allowance to help his family.
No proper boots, shit kit etc. Thats a guy struggling and with zero support, good player too. If that guy had a skill and was offered a 300 buck a month permanent job he'd be gone. He'd be 240 bucks better off than most civil servants. No jokes.
What guys survive off here is staggering, I don't know how they do it. The second some guys actually get disposable income you see them do or buy something not practical that shows they've moved up a rung or two.

There's been a general box ticking exercise but it's window dressing, they have to take care of the detail, and it won't happen, despite it being the difference between success and failure. The economy is actually a major factor, Life is tough here. The economy is run by guys cut from the same cloth. They look after themselves first.

The big thing here is to be able to pay some guys year round. Of course they'd choose the wrong blokes, but someone completely impartial needs to pick about a dozen promising guys and pay some money so they can practice.

[secretzimbo]

team lunch

Well at least they provide that now An improvement on some previous seasons

[TapsC2]

Which is why those national contracts are crucial for the guys. If guys like chamu are on national contracts then thats just scandalous. We might be the only country which doesn't publish the list of contracted players. There is a reason for this. I thought it was mandatory.

[Pat_Bee]

team lunch

Well at least they provide that now An improvement on some previous seasons

Send the groundsman’s assistant to chicken inn these days so the players don’t need to yo.