Test Opening options

[pariah]

With Raza stepping up as the 2nd most reliable - heck perhaps even the single most reliable - batter in the side, I wouldn't want to ruin his flow by forcing him to open if thats not his natural position in red ball cricket. If Raza and Ervine continue to score for an entire season or the Zimbabwe equivalent (8 Tests, 20 ODIs or so), then I'd have them moved to 3 and 4, following the rule that your best batsmen bat at those two positions. Its natural that for Zimbabwe you might want to shield your two best batters a bit more and therefore slot them at 4 and 5 (incumbent Ervine and Williams). But for me, Willy should not bat any higher than 6 - which is great if he bowls a lot of overs as he did in SL.

As for opening, for now Hamilton and some other guy is probably best. Mawoyo would get my vote as well and if not him then I would actually go with Chari as I think I saw some potential in that lad to be a reasonable Test opener.

Kriterion you love to use stats, and stats prove that Hami has been Zimbabwe's best batsman, and most consistent across ALL formats. The fact that he has been dropped before while others haven't been dropped for worser spells of poor form does not mean that Hami has not excelled. Even by your own reasoning Hami should be batting at bumber 3. That was also the case when Taylor was there because Hami and Taylor were the two best batsmen and they batted 3 and 4, to great success for Zimbabwe! Ervine and Williams have never at any point in their career even remotely threatened Hami as the best Test batsman. What is the basis for your statement?

Again, there are instances of batsmen opening in ODIs, but batting in the middle order in Tests so I don't understand the Raza-natural-redball what-not. Besides, Musakanda is batting at number 3 now. Where does he bat in ODIs if Craig and Raza are moved up to 3 and 4?

People continue to say Hami must open, and they continue to ignore his pathetic record opening, but they also fail to answer the question - "what happens if Hami fails opening again in Tests?". What must happen then?

[Andybligzz]

I would really like to see Burl in the lineup and with Ervine and Williams ( only just ) both being left handed Middle order batsman and a all rounder respectively I can't see him getting in especially if Taylor comes back . Why not try burl as a opener he could provide a difference at the top being a left handed and he's shown he is definitely more suited to the longer format , I know people are not going to agree but after last test surely he can't do any worse ! Try him at home to settle the nerves and have somelme experience at the other end ( Hamilton ) and just back the kid in , he can obviously play and if he fails back him for another test show some faith because I truely believe he has what it takes . Just my opinion

[jaybro]

Take a chill pill Hhm you're brain is about to explode

[jaybro]

like many Zimbos before him he may be forced to open to force his way into the side

Who are those many Zimbos who have been forced to open in order to "make their way into the side"? Could you perhaps provide a list?

Ebrahim
Rennie
Rogers
Raza
Vermeulan
BRMT
Maruma


There's probably more but that's just a few guys who opened in the beginning of their careers but would later move down the order or would prefer to bat lower down the order.

[jaybro]

People continue to say Hami must open, and they continue to ignore his pathetic record opening, but they also fail to answer the question - "what happens if Hami fails opening again in Tests?". What must happen then?

No one is saying "Hami must open" we're simply giving our opinions! Do you even bother reading our posts or are you too busy typing the noise that you hear in your head?

To answer your question he'll probably move back to 3 or if the guy batting at 3 is doing well he might get dropped.

[Bulawayo Boy]

With Raza stepping up as the 2nd most reliable - heck perhaps even the single most reliable - batter in the side, I wouldn't want to ruin his flow by forcing him to open if thats not his natural position in red ball cricket. If Raza and Ervine continue to score for an entire season or the Zimbabwe equivalent (8 Tests, 20 ODIs or so), then I'd have them moved to 3 and 4, following the rule that your best batsmen bat at those two positions. Its natural that for Zimbabwe you might want to shield your two best batters a bit more and therefore slot them at 4 and 5 (incumbent Ervine and Williams). But for me, Willy should not bat any higher than 6 - which is great if he bowls a lot of overs as he did in SL.

As for opening, for now Hamilton and some other guy is probably best. Mawoyo would get my vote as well and if not him then I would actually go with Chari as I think I saw some potential in that lad to be a reasonable Test opener.

Kriterion you love to use stats, and stats prove that Hami has been Zimbabwe's best batsman, and most consistent across ALL formats. The fact that he has been dropped before while others haven't been dropped for worser spells of poor form does not mean that Hami has not excelled. Even by your own reasoning Hami should be batting at bumber 3. That was also the case when Taylor was there because Hami and Taylor were the two best batsmen and they batted 3 and 4, to great success for Zimbabwe! Ervine and Williams have never at any point in their career even remotely threatened Hami as the best Test batsman. What is the basis for your statement?

Again, there are instances of batsmen opening in ODIs, but batting in the middle order in Tests so I don't understand the Raza-natural-redball what-not. Besides, Musakanda is batting at number 3 now. Where does he bat in ODIs if Craig and Raza are moved up to 3 and 4?

People continue to say Hami must open, and they continue to ignore his pathetic record opening, but they also fail to answer the question - "what happens if Hami fails opening again in Tests?". What must happen then?

Speaking for myself I think Hami is a great player - I know watermelon hates him and calls him "coke can," (which I still cannot work out - is it his body shape???) but he's very, very experienced and a natural leader. I wouldn't have a problem with him opening or batting at 3 - just as long as he's in the team. There's a lot to be said about protecting your best batsmen from the new ball so there's good reason to play him lower, for sure, but I honestly think he can do both. He got player of the series on the ODIs recently and I feel a lot of criticism of him is unfounded. I'd also like him to bowl more. I'd like Regis to open with Mire for an extended period. I know Mire is regarded as a short format player but I seriously think that a man who can get a ton in an ODI can get a ton in a test.

[Bulawayo Boy]

like many Zimbos before him he may be forced to open to force his way into the side

Who are those many Zimbos who have been forced to open in order to "make their way into the side"? Could you perhaps provide a list?

Ebrahim
Rennie
Rogers
Raza
Vermeulan
BRMT
Maruma


There's probably more but that's just a few guys who opened in the beginning of their careers but would later move down the order or would prefer to bat lower down the order.

Not saying you're wrong or anything but I played against Ebrahim at school and he opened then. He was technically a very sound batsman. He took our bowling to pieces once he got going. A great loss to Zimbabwe cricket. *sigh*

[ljriley90]

Kunje has batted 4/5 this season. Surely he'd get found out?

[eugene]

Pariah, I think the issue is not that we think Hami has a proven record as a test opener, it is really that there are almost no options who would be any more suitable. At least Hami has some experience and and some success, in ODIs at least. Plucking a specialist opener from the weak domestic scene and throwing them into the team at the expense of one of our established middle order stars just doesn't seem to make sense. When you are as comparatively weak as we are, you always need your best XI on the field. I would not want to sacrifice Hami or Williams for an inexperienced opener who has scored a few runs against some local scrubs.

[Kriterion_BD]

Kriterion you love to use stats, and stats prove that Hami has been Zimbabwe's best batsman, and most consistent across ALL formats. The fact that he has been dropped before while others haven't been dropped for worser spells of poor form does not mean that Hami has not excelled. Even by your own reasoning Hami should be batting at bumber 3. That was also the case when Taylor was there because Hami and Taylor were the two best batsmen and they batted 3 and 4, to great success for Zimbabwe! Ervine and Williams have never at any point in their career even remotely threatened Hami as the best Test batsman. What is the basis for your statement?

Again, there are instances of batsmen opening in ODIs, but batting in the middle order in Tests so I don't understand the Raza-natural-redball what-not. Besides, Musakanda is batting at number 3 now. Where does he bat in ODIs if Craig and Raza are moved up to 3 and 4?

People continue to say Hami must open, and they continue to ignore his pathetic record opening, but they also fail to answer the question - "what happens if Hami fails opening again in Tests?". What must happen then?

"Hami has been our best batsmen" is either not true at all or at best true, but hollow after contextualization. Let us set a reasonable parameter of 50 innings vs the top 8 sides (excluding Bangladesh) since 2004 playing sides and adjust if thats too many innings. Good news, Raza has just made the cutoff with 53 innings. Once again a number of people, not just you/HHM, have propogated this misconception, especially in light of the SL series where he made a couple of good scores on flat tracks against a near-minnow SL attack.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... pe=batting

Here are the averages summarized:

Ervine - 35
Raza - 32
Williams - 27
Chibabha - 26
Masakadza - 24
Chigumbura - 22
Waller - 22
Vusi - 21

Taylor - 31
Taibu - 29 (but very poor strike rate of 63)

This is over a span of 50 innings so there are no flukes or outliers skewing data. Hamilton is just a mediocre batsman, and well behind even Williams to say nothing of Ervine and Raza. He's lucky to be in my XI to begin with and thats only because there isn't a specialist opener that can do better apart from Mawoyo.

Context is key. Bashing Kenya for a double century doesn't say much if it isn't backed up against better sides. This is why I didn't lambast him for his failures in the SL Test match. He put up his hand, batted out of position, and thats commendable for the senior guy in the side.

Now if we look at data from 2014 onwards (recent 3-4 years) and add Bangladesh, Masakadza does a lot better:

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine ... pe=batting

Ervine - 34
Masakadza - 32
Raza - 29

He's close to being Zimbabwe's best, and this is basically why I've stopped leaving him out of my XI over the past year or so.