State of SA

[ZIMDOGGY]

Not your head personally but you know what I mean.

[zimbos_05]

It's quite simple for me. Quinton has never taken a knee, whatever his reasons for it, he knows.

In this tournament, pretty much all teams have done so though, including the Australia and NZ teams (as someone mentioned they were not sure).

SA either took a knee, placed their fist up, stood to attention, or bowed their head. There was no cohesive stance and this caused a lot of angst amongst many. In a nation that likes to pride itself on it's diversity and differences, the image was a stark reminder of just how different everyone is, and the wide rifts that still exist.

Unfortunately in SA, the problem is cause by both sides. When Mandela took over, he said no man should ever be made to feel less. Quotas unfortunately do just that. They be little one group of people. On the other side, you have Indians and whites exploiting African people in poverty too. So the disparities are still prevalent and their is no cohesiveness within the nation, let alone within the cricket team.

So you can understand why people are upset, but you can also understand why animosity still exists. Unfortunately, these problems are systemic within Africa has a whole, and until that changes, we will continue to see these issues.

Unfortunately for QDK, he could be ruining a very successful cricketing career. In saying that, if he were to walk away from SA, there would be no shortage of teams willing to sign him up.

[Jemisi]

I am not sure of the right thing really. He could obviously have complied and not made it an issue.

Symbols have some value so I am not against the gesture on some level although it does seem confused.

I guess the compulsion aspect of it just makes it feel cheap.

When someone does something genuine as a statement against oppression we can applaud.

When committees mandate everyone do something as a 'Statement' it can be emptied of much meaning.

I guess there is a time to kneel and a time to stand.

Not sure in this case.

[slcricfan1]

Ya you're 100% correct, our most tense racial moments are long gone, and as you say that's largely because there are so few of us left that a) the whites that are left largely get along with our fellow countrymen because everyone has learned to relax a lot. b) most of us are just trying to get by and dont have the time or energy to waste time in no win situations and c) there are so few of us we are actually of no consequence, whereas in SA there's still so many whites they're front and centre in everything. The quick solution is to take what they've got and bring them down several notches. It doesn't work and there's ample proof of that but it is inevitable. Everyone suffers except for the 1%.

Is it just SA and WI doing the kneeling and black power salute or are there other teams, or is it when they play SA and WI? Is the kneeling an anti-racist gesture or is it also a gesture of support for BLM? I'm a bit confused.
The actual people who run BLM should all be in jail for many things, but particularly embezzlement, they're world champions, they've stolen tens of millions of donations.

Pommie is a world class brilliant and knowledgeable commentator and I love listening to him, but he did get his foot originally in the door because they were looking for a non white and he ticked every box and they were and are prepared to forget he's not South African. They're still so desperate they make us listen to Ntini. He does have to sing for his supper, so a strong comment like that guarantees his future. He forgets that black South Africans regularly kill black Zimbabweans that they perceive to have taken their jobs, but you won't hear him speaking out strongly about that. Why not have a game where everyone kneels for the 4000 white farmers butchered like animals in the last few years?
Same as a few of the players, they're not there by merit so are they kneeling for more favours or are they actually silently thanking their Gods that they're there because of blatant racism and willing it to continue.

Everyone seems to be forgetting that De Kock is not categorised as white.
Maybe we need a Coloured Lives Matter grovelling session?
I agree he should have just knelt and got on with it, this nonsense would blow over, but his actions are bringing it front and centre and its feigned indignation because he's giving it centre stage instead of slamming it into the rubbish bin where it belongs.

Is De Kock coloured? I tried searching it up but I havent found anything

[Googly]

Ya in their original 5 pure black, 4 half black with some brown and a couple of semi-white (I'm not sure there are too many full white in SA, most have a trace of colour in their ancestry, particularly the Afrikaaners) QDK was originally classified as not white, but I can't find it either anymore, maybe it was taken down.
All the whites are frantically looking for some black ancestry Its like the Kiwi's, the number of rugby players who claim to have Maori ancestry is amusing.
The irony is that they're still classifying. It's apartheid all over again, except now they're discriminating against anyone who's not pure black. Pure black has become the pure white. People need to wake up to what's going on there.
Whilst all these race issues simmer nobody talks about ongoing tribal issues- the Ndebele Shona issue and how hostile the Zulus are to anyone else. Of course these are broad generalisations, but it's there, but it's as if it's not for public consumption. Tribal issues are massive throughout Africa, in politics the dominant tribe gets all the political posts and everyone else is marginalised, but again nobody talks about that. Race and transgender are the hot topics.

One can't help but think of the Flower Olonga black armband protest. They were the only two that did it and probably for different reasons, but they weren't the only two that ultimately walked out, but clearly they were the only ones up for protesting whilst most of the team felt the same way.
I'm watching with interest this Dave Chapelle transgender debacle. "They're" trying to cancel him, but no-one knows exactly who "they" are. He's putting up a good fight, he's bloody awesome. Try and be transgender and/or gay in black Africa, Russia and various other places, it won't go well for you, but nobody is trying to cancel them. "They" pick the fights they can win.
The QDK is simple- just ask him, let him issue a public statement, but of course the most you'll get is some watered down version of exactly what's going on. Maybe he's pissed off that he's being made to do it. In apartheid South Africa, if he has apparent black ancestry, he'd have been marginalised like D'Olivera. Maybe he's protesting against the pure blackness. They're pushing for a black Ayrian race, now where have we seen that before?
If you're coloured you're really fucked, nobody loves you Its a disgrace, we need to move on.
If you make someone do something against their will and then pat yourself on the back that everyone is onboard it's meaningless, but of course that's irrelevant.

[zimbos_05]

I am not sure of the right thing really. He could obviously have complied and not made it an issue.

Symbols have some value so I am not against the gesture on some level although it does seem confused.

I guess the compulsion aspect of it just makes it feel cheap.

When someone does something genuine as a statement against oppression we can applaud.

When committees mandate everyone do something as a 'Statement' it can be emptied of much meaning.

I guess there is a time to kneel and a time to stand.

Not sure in this case.

I feel CSAs hand was forced. There was uproar that an African nation could not have unity within their team, yet other nations were unified in their stance.

There's obviously rifts within Africa along racial divides, and it needs to be fixed, but CSA were compelled to act or continue to face ridicule and issues back home.

[Jemisi]

Oh yeah, there's pressure on them too.

[Googly]

I see QDK has kissed and made up and made an unequivocal apology for offending everybody.

[slcricfan1]

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/sout ... ee-1285649

Googly yeah you were half right says his step mom is black and hence his half-sisters are coloured

[Googly]

Aaah no, I'm pretty sure there's more to it than that, that's half the story.
His folks are from Masvingo or Fort Victoria as it used to be called.