For crying out loud - DROP KYLE JARVIS!

[eugene]

Jarvis has done well domestically in the Pro-50 having taken more wickets than Edward Rainsford in fewer matches at a strike rate that is twice as good.

[hhm]

Jarvis has done well domestically in the Pro-50 having taken more wickets than Edward Rainsford in fewer matches at a strike rate that is twice as good.

Glad to know that. Now let's watch him replicate that comparison at international level.........

[Dr_Situ(ZimFanatic)]

Jarvis has done well domestically in the Pro-50 having taken more wickets than Edward Rainsford in fewer matches at a strike rate that is twice as good.

Glad to know that. Now let's watch him replicate that comparison at international level.........

Both survived career-threatening injuries. Who's still on international arena is clearly visible to all

[Jemisi]

Nicely failed to include 4 wickets in 2 T20s. For a guy who supposedly never takes wickets, he's been getting a lot of poles.

That was deliberate. I didn't want o drag the only statistic at which he has a better international record than his domestic one(Twenty20) - because that says a lot about his ability in the format against domestic players! It's generally accepted that T20Is comprise fringe players, funny batting orders and tactics. As you wish I will include his T20 stats: Ma2, Wk4, Ave16.75, Eco9.57, SR10.5

Bowling Tour Averages: Test, ODIs, T20s

Instead of paying attention to that you should be more concerned about those four wickets. International Novice Rob Nicol walking down to our so called premier fast bowler and playing across to an easy straight hit, Brendan McCullum - who knows what possessed him to fetch that one(did acknowledge they were needlessly careless not beaten), the other two came in the 19th over of the 2nd match when the opposition already had 180 on the board - both largely due to circumstances and the batsman's inefficiences not the bowler's excellence!

He was dropped(NOT ROTATED) more than a couple of times when Bang, Pak&NZ visited us (for not taking tangible wicketsa and being expensive&clueless), and if it wasn't for the fact that we were touring - limited poor personnel & options, plus Mpofu injured - he wouldn't have been dropped this time as well! I don't think anybody should bother arguing with me about Jarvis. You've been on a hiding to nothing from day one, and he'll continue to give me enough evidence to ensure that he will be eventually be dropped before he gets better. Like him openly, no harm in that, but just don't back him blindly! You'll be disappointed!

I'm not backing him blindly, nor is he one of my favourite players. But you chop and change your statistical arguments as you see fit. You say he is supposed to take wickets and that he doesn't. Then you argue that the wickets he does take are rubbish - which would be fine except that he took more wickets on a poor tour than anyone else. Has taken the most wickets of anyone in test since the comeback, and now has 18 wickets from his 16 ODIs - hardly a poor strike rate.

14 test wickets in 4 games.
18 ODI wickets in 16 games.
10 T20 wickets in 6 games.

Kyle is not one of my favourites, it would be good for you to drop the pretence and admit you just don't like the guy and want him to fail so that you can argue more strongly for one of your own favourites.

It is hard to see how you can make an argument for dropping the bowler who has taken the most wickets on tour. I'm not sure if Kyle will turn those 42 international wickets into 142 or 242, but he has taken those 42 at a fast rate Zimwise. How can you be saying that our recent leading wicket taker should be considered our 4th or worse seamer? What kind of message would it send if we dropped the bloke who made the most runs?

[hhm]

Kyle is not one of my favourites, it would be good for you to drop the pretence and admit you just don't like the guy and want him to fail so that you can argue more strongly for one of your own favourites.

This has nothing to do with my favorites or my feelings for the guy. Why would I be advocating for a Zimbabwean to fail! Are you listening to yourself?

Point is, he has failed, and that's why I want him out. Our measurements are different. He's done nothign when it counts. A closer look at all those wickets you speak of highlights precisely what I meant! Cremer just bagged 3 wickets in a Test match against a Tuskers side on the backfoot for the bulk of its innings. But are they wickets worth talking off? That's the kind of thing I mean.

For such a strugling country, we cannot afford to persist with players who do little to help the team. Junaid Khan & Wahab Riaz were dropped without hesitation after one or two failures, despite having stellar performances prior to that. Both are superior to Jarvis, but guess who replaces them each time Aizaz Cheema(8-12 yrs their senior) and he does the job. For many who saw Zim against Pak - Jarvis&Vitori would've been rated higher. My point is drop the players who don't fulfill their roles! Jarvis is not taking wickets with the new ball and for the bulk of the games, we gain little-to-no advantage from his efforts - so DITCH HIM! Shingi was dropped/rested despite doing more with the ball(&bat) - why not Jarvis.

Stop shifting my arguments to one of my feelings or thoughts of the individual. This is cricekt! The question you should be asking yourself is - "what qualitative effort can I point to that this boy has ever brought to the team". I assure you, less than 5-10% of his wickets will qualify. Mpofu&Elton have a higher percentage!

[Jemisi]

Umm, reread the last line of your previous post. You introduced the question of individual favouritism. "Like the guy openly" you encouraged.

And again you look to miss the forest for the trees. I make a quantitative argument. He is taking more wickets than anyone else - which doesn't suit your desire for him to be out of the team, but does answer a recent demand of yours that he takes wickets!

But since you made that demand he has been doing excatly that - taking wickets, so whoops you need to move the goalposts again.

Qualitative arguments have a place as do quantitative ones - some runs and wickets are worth more than others, but you don't drop the bloke making the most runs and you don't drop the guy taking the most wickets.

Concede that Kyle has been doing at least a decent job, even if you can see areas he needs to improve.

[hhm]

But since you made that demand he has been doing excatly that - taking wickets, so whoops you need to move the goalposts again.
Concede that Kyle has been doing at least a decent job, even if you can see areas he needs to improve.

My friend, this thread was opened after Jarvis had a 5for against NZ in their 2nd innings, and had taken 4 wickets in that 2nd innings of the Bangladesh Test, plus ten wickest in a logan Cup match against the Rocks somewhere in there - the demand was not that he simply takes wickets.

I challenged the boy to become a new ball bowler who gives the team an advantage, failing which, that responsibility should go to other players and he can be 1st or 2nd change, then ultimately dropped for failing in the containing role which change seamers are mainly employed for! As it is has utterly failed in his role, and must be relegated. Since I know he will be incapable of fulfilling the second role, then might as well drop him! That would please me! Even if people don;t wan't my Rainsford&Panyangara, it could be said that the likes of Chatara, Chinouya & Tiripano deserve a run! Jarvis has done nothing as a new ball bowler to nail the spot!

Arguments can be made that Vitori missed NZ through injury and this was his first Test so must get another chance, so if he is to be dropped for one of the guys I mentioned, why not Jarvis who also failed in the NZ Test - and has not taken wickets when it's mattered!

[sloandog]

Yawn, let's not feed the trolls any longer on this debate

[hhm]

We had Mupariwa and we let him go but kept this poor fellow. For all the vague signs of progress he's shown in the Test arena, surely Zim has never unearthed a worser seam bowling prospect in the limited overs! The facts simply refuse to disagree with me!

Apart from Taylor who had a stinker in the SLPL(and his rot does tend to stick around when it shows up), I wouldn't be worried bout the batting, because our top four often comes right in this format. On the other hand, give Jarvis the new ball and whatever good any of the other bowlers do won't be enough to pepper over his cracks.

Drop this guy, he's been begging for it for some time!!!!!!!!

Not gonna happen. I can see Dilshan & Co salivating already...

[PieChucker]

Yup. Jarvis is not a 20/20 bowler.
While we're at it can we return Chigs to his swines
and let Matsi go gentle into that goodnight