Pakistan Tour of Zimbabwe | T20i - ODI Series 2024

[Pat_Bee]

This is the one way in which you can have some sympathy with the likes of Mawoza.

What?!

That’s got to be the muto we ma pampers talking

[aydee]

This is the one way in which you can have some sympathy with the likes of Mawoza.

What?!

That’s got to be the muto we ma pampers talking

Maybe sympathy is too strong a word...

But at least an understanding of some of what motivates them to be like they are.

[Googly]

The guys "waiting in the wings" is an interesting conversation.

Secret can assist with guys I've left out.

Bhawa. They're going to once again bend the rules for him and he will be fast tracked. Looks and is real quality. Great guy too.

Muchawaya, Chataira, Macheka.- I'm sure there are other seamers. All have promise. Too erratic.

Spinners? Not too sure. Ainsley. I think he's excellent.
Bones. Doesn't turn it but excellent.

Shumba- . He's had opportunity, I'm sure will come back a better player and then will be in the mix because they've invested in him. Don't think they enjoyed him leaving.

K-long- . Had sporadic opportunity. Maybe he's readier than before. Wonderfully destructive domestically but erratic. I think he'll continue to struggle internationally, but then why invite him to trials and ignore his performance? If he gets it right he will be great for us.

Kaitano- . Ditto. He's too slow but great technique.

Chari- I've always liked the way he bats. Combative solid batter. Out of favor.

Innocent- is he done?

Solly- I suspect he hasn't been playing much and probably out of touch. Had some opportunities. Good player. He's found the going difficult so far, but he's very good. Was found a bit wanting at international level, but you never know second time around.
Needs a huge season. Is he here for the long haul?

Luke- surely in the mix? Might be maligning the guy but don't think he has the best work ethic. Wonderfully talented, really let his bowling and body go. If he could bowl 130 plus like he did at school he'd be penned in most games. Never puts a value on his wicket, but tremendously talented.

Prince- a test player so not really part of this convo.
Great technique but body conditioning always makes you wonder about work ethic.

Here are the white guys that I suspect much of the upheaval is all about. I'll talk more about them because this is where the arguments are.
Curran, Welchx2, Campbell (not yet two but maybe if Jr does well), Evans. Schadendorf. Williams and Ervine.

Schadendorf- needs a big season. Had a great NPL but not against Takas. T20 specialist. We'll have to wait and see. Not realistically part of a conversation yet.

Curran- good opener and fielder. He looks like he's really gone up a level. Looks wonderfully organised and compact. Think he struggles to play bigger shots, except for the pull and paddles and sweeps. Needs a big season. Thing is he's perceived to have failed in County. Yes and no. Think the grand announcement he's back was a bit disingenuous, might not have been him.
Think he's limited at T20. Great fielder.

Campbell Snr- think he's been snaked. Deserves a go.
Not sure which format he's best at. Got into T20 on red ball runs, only in Zim, but he can play all formats.


Campbell Jr. Not really part of this convo yet, but they have talked about him. He's got a steep hill to climb.

Ervine and Williams- their looming retirements are causing chaos. Are their retirements voluntary or enforced? Their replacements need to be of similar standard/potential or surely keep playing them? Let them decide who's replacing them I know the answer. Ervine at T20, his weakest format is still better than most we have. Anyone who doesn't think so is smoking something. He's good on his day, but starts too slowly. Doesn't mean he's an excellent T20 player, means our options are limited.

Matt Welch- averages 45 plus in two formats if they want to talk stats. Best batter in Zim domestic statistically. If you're going to fast track Bhawa, Bennett, Myers , Shumba, Madhevere, Musekiwa and Madande he should be near the top of that list.
He'll get there and I think the timing will be good unless they keep him out for longer than a season. Needs a bit longer to consolidate and see if he can keep long term. We've seen what can happen if you rush guys. Keeping aside he's the best stroke maker in the land. He can play shots other pros dream about.

Nick Welch- really shite averages from last season but close to our best batsman. Had a disastrous start and got sidelined. They're wasting valuable time keeping him out, and they know that, but hoping someone else will come good so they can keep ignoring him. Needs a really big season. The most combative determined hard-working guy we've got by a distance.
He could and should replace any batter in those teams aside from Raza, Ervine, Williams, Bennett and Myers. Well let's wait and see how Myers and Bennett actually do. Huge cricket coming up for them. Crossing fingers and toes. That will upset everyone if either fail dismally, and of course it can happen, cricket is a bitch.

Evans- not really up to speed with his injuries. Don't know if that's what kept him out of the regionals. Don't think so. Our most economical seamer, flatters to deceive with the bat, but wonderfully talented.
I think he's centrally contracted and I don't think Faraz is? That tells a story in itself. He's been out a long time and clearly doing penance, but nobody is happy that Faraz is ahead of him and Luke.
Give Faraz his 3 series and don't hide him. Expose him. Sink or swim. If you want to play games front up.

Dunno who I've left out.
The guys that I think have been done a disservice are Campbell, Welch Snr, Evans, Ainsley and K-long. They should at least be in the squads.

[Pat_Bee]

Jongwe is the man, always got a performance in him. That thing last night said Dave trusted him. I’d trust Dave’s judgement.

Off field he’s shady

That whole bat episode where he courted all the manufacturers, got free bats for his mates then went out to the middle with one that had no stickers legend.

[Pat_Bee]

NW can’t be as good now as he was when he was fresh back from Leicestershire. Just the nature of it being far easier cricket here and far dodgier umpires. Seems a bit of a waste how it turned out. There’s time though.

[CholeZimbo]

Googly, what a writer love it. In summary, There was a time whites unfairly treated blacks, opportunity, selection etc.. but everything worked and was well run and the team was on an upward trajectory. Fast forward to now, Blacks run the show and the whites are being treated unfairly, opportunity, selection etc.. and everything is poorly run and the team is in an abyss. Simply put, it is sad and again it all starts at where one wants to mark as the beginning of the problem. There is definitely more to be gained by letting bygone be bygones but it is also somewhat understandable for someone to be unforgiving. Blacks were marginalized and perhaps as a result they aren't genetically better at cricket than whites as a result and this will form the basis of their argument, to say they deserve more leeway (Wes, Maru etc). They would argue that it is their turn to have the upper hand because they were generationally second class and it is unfair that they fought against this racism only for the white to concede and say, "ok fine, you have won the fight, from now on let us be equal".

In my opinion, the running of the game should be inclusive and merit based. Selection should even be an AI generated model with some human hand for the rough edges, and factors such as injuries, availability etc. This way bias is minimal.

However, the problem is that the game is run by folks who have unfortunately been amongst the blacks who experienced this discrimination first hand and so, it is personal to them. Sadly for the game, it has proven very counterproductive. If these guys continue to run the game we are not going anywhere, justified or not, they are very bitter. But that is the reality.

On the bright side, the new generation of fans, the ones who did not experience the racism first hand genuinely do not care what race a person is, they just want the team to win and it seems this section is growing in numbers.

[secretzimbo]

In my opinion, the running of the game should be inclusive and merit based. Selection should even be an AI generated model with some human hand for the rough edges, and factors such as injuries, availability etc. This way bias is minimal.

I just asked ChatGPT to select a Zimbabwe ODI side for the Pakistan series and it came back with;

1. Innocent Kaia
2. Kamunhukamwe
3. Raza
4. Ervine
5. Madhevere
6. Williams
7. Taylor
8. Burl
9. Muzarabani
10. Ngarav
11. Chatara

[Pat_Bee]

In my opinion, the running of the game should be inclusive and merit based. Selection should even be an AI generated model with some human hand for the rough edges, and factors such as injuries, availability etc. This way bias is minimal.

I just asked ChatGPT to select a Zimbabwe ODI side for the Pakistan series and it came back with;

1. Innocent Kaia
2. Kamunhukamwe
3. Raza
4. Ervine
5. Madhevere
6. Williams
7. Taylor
8. Burl
9. Muzarabani
10. Ngarav
11. Chatara

Yes, Larry and it knows raza should be higher than five

Dropped the ball with BT though

[Marshmallow]

Googly you missed Masuku

[Kriterion_BD]

The guys "waiting in the wings" is an interesting conversation.

Secret can assist with guys I've left out.

Bhawa. They're going to once again bend the rules for him and he will be fast tracked. Looks and is real quality. Great guy too.

Muchawaya, Chataira, Macheka.- I'm sure there are other seamers. All have promise. Too erratic.

Spinners? Not too sure. Ainsley. I think he's excellent.
Bones. Doesn't turn it but excellent.

Shumba- . He's had opportunity, I'm sure will come back a better player and then will be in the mix because they've invested in him. Don't think they enjoyed him leaving.

K-long- . Had sporadic opportunity. Maybe he's readier than before. Wonderfully destructive domestically but erratic. I think he'll continue to struggle internationally, but then why invite him to trials and ignore his performance? If he gets it right he will be great for us.

Kaitano- . Ditto. He's too slow but great technique.

Chari- I've always liked the way he bats. Combative solid batter. Out of favor.

Innocent- is he done?

Solly- I suspect he hasn't been playing much and probably out of touch. Had some opportunities. Good player. He's found the going difficult so far, but he's very good. Was found a bit wanting at international level, but you never know second time around.
Needs a huge season. Is he here for the long haul?

Luke- surely in the mix? Might be maligning the guy but don't think he has the best work ethic. Wonderfully talented, really let his bowling and body go. If he could bowl 130 plus like he did at school he'd be penned in most games. Never puts a value on his wicket, but tremendously talented.

Prince- a test player so not really part of this convo.
Great technique but body conditioning always makes you wonder about work ethic.

Here are the white guys that I suspect much of the upheaval is all about. I'll talk more about them because this is where the arguments are.
Curran, Welchx2, Campbell (not yet two but maybe if Jr does well), Evans. Schadendorf. Williams and Ervine.

Schadendorf- needs a big season. Had a great NPL but not against Takas. T20 specialist. We'll have to wait and see. Not realistically part of a conversation yet.

Curran- good opener and fielder. He looks like he's really gone up a level. Looks wonderfully organised and compact. Think he struggles to play bigger shots, except for the pull and paddles and sweeps. Needs a big season. Thing is he's perceived to have failed in County. Yes and no. Think the grand announcement he's back was a bit disingenuous, might not have been him.
Think he's limited at T20. Great fielder.

Campbell Snr- think he's been snaked. Deserves a go.
Not sure which format he's best at. Got into T20 on red ball runs, only in Zim, but he can play all formats.


Campbell Jr. Not really part of this convo yet, but they have talked about him. He's got a steep hill to climb.

Ervine and Williams- their looming retirements are causing chaos. Are their retirements voluntary or enforced? Their replacements need to be of similar standard/potential or surely keep playing them? Let them decide who's replacing them I know the answer. Ervine at T20, his weakest format is still better than most we have. Anyone who doesn't think so is smoking something. He's good on his day, but starts too slowly. Doesn't mean he's an excellent T20 player, means our options are limited.

Matt Welch- averages 45 plus in two formats if they want to talk stats. Best batter in Zim domestic statistically. If you're going to fast track Bhawa, Bennett, Myers , Shumba, Madhevere, Musekiwa and Madande he should be near the top of that list.
He'll get there and I think the timing will be good unless they keep him out for longer than a season. Needs a bit longer to consolidate and see if he can keep long term. We've seen what can happen if you rush guys. Keeping aside he's the best stroke maker in the land. He can play shots other pros dream about.

Nick Welch- really shite averages from last season but close to our best batsman. Had a disastrous start and got sidelined. They're wasting valuable time keeping him out, and they know that, but hoping someone else will come good so they can keep ignoring him. Needs a really big season. The most combative determined hard-working guy we've got by a distance.
He could and should replace any batter in those teams aside from Raza, Ervine, Williams, Bennett and Myers. Well let's wait and see how Myers and Bennett actually do. Huge cricket coming up for them. Crossing fingers and toes. That will upset everyone if either fail dismally, and of course it can happen, cricket is a bitch.

Evans- not really up to speed with his injuries. Don't know if that's what kept him out of the regionals. Don't think so. Our most economical seamer, flatters to deceive with the bat, but wonderfully talented.
I think he's centrally contracted and I don't think Faraz is? That tells a story in itself. He's been out a long time and clearly doing penance, but nobody is happy that Faraz is ahead of him and Luke.
Give Faraz his 3 series and don't hide him. Expose him. Sink or swim. If you want to play games front up.

Dunno who I've left out.
The guys that I think have been done a disservice are Campbell, Welch Snr, Evans, Ainsley and K-long. They should at least be in the squads.

Even Australia don't have that many "wonderfully talented" players

Brian Bennett and Dion Myers look to be great finds. They are going to be the Taylor-Williams of he next generation. The struggle for finding another 2-3 guys of Ervine and Raza's quality is going to determine how Zimbabwe's batting goes.

Muzarabani and Ngarava still have some miles left so the seam bowling is in a decent spot. You'll need to find another 2 guys who can hold their own (Evans and a fourth).

Spin is the big weakness apart from batting...